The Big Picture

Colin O’Donoghue co-hosts
The Xavatar Show
, an immersive talk show experience in the metaverse.
O’Donoghue also spoke about his time on
Once Upon a Time
as Captain Hook.
He and Jason P. Rothberg discussed how
The Xavatar Show
works for fans.

Colin O’Donoghue, best known for portraying Captain Hook (aka Killian Jones) on ABC’s hit series Once Upon a Time, has set sail on a new adventure this year. One that has taken him into the metaverse. Earlier this month, it was announced that O’Donoghue would be one of the hosts of The Xavatar Show, an immersive talk show experience hosted within the virtual realm of the metaverse. Following this announcement, Collider had the opportunity to chat with O’Donoghue and the show’s creator, Jason P. Rothberg, a former music executive, about the project, and of course—Once Upon a Time.

Following Once Upon a Time, O’Donoghue has done a number of voice acting roles including Trollhunters: Rise of the Titans, the short-lived Trollhunters series; its spin-offs 3Below: Tales of Arcadia and Wizards: Tales of Arcadia; and The Great North. In addition to the animated projects, he also began podcasting during the pandemic and became a co-host on The Sync Report, which focuses on filmmaking and the music industry. With this in mind, I questioned O’Donoghue about what it has been like getting more in touch with his voice through vocal performance.

“I don’t really know. I guess it’s just my voice, but I guess I’ve learned to try to speak a little bit more clearly and not mumble so much, and to try and cut out saying “eh” and “ehm” as much as I can, which I’m not really doing so well here. But no, it’s a different thing.
I was lucky enough to do an animation for Netflix that Guillermo del Toro was producing, and I had quite a bit to do in that, so that was a lot of fun.
You kind of learn how to use the microphone, and it’s a little bit more over-the-top, whereas this is slightly different because this is just basically me and Jason and Rose [Ganguzza] and what we sound like. So, it’s been fun.”

He went on to explain how Xavatar came to be, “Jason reached out to me during the lockdown. We had worked on a movie together—well, Jason was the music supervisor on it, and he was setting up this podcast, so he asked if I’d be interested in taking part.” He added, “I love music, I love acting, I love film, and it was an opportunity to get to speak to some really incredible creators and stuff like that, so it was a lot of fun. And now we’re expanding it into an animated talk show essentially.”

What Has It Been Like Going From Interviewee to Interviewer

With The Sync Report and now The Xavatar Show, Colin O’Donoghue has gone from being the subject of interviews about his acting career to being the one asking the questions. It’s always fascinating to hear how that dynamic shift is for performers, and O’Donoghue was eager to delve into how it has changed things for him. “I guess I try to be a lot less awkward. I don’t think I succeed too well, but I try to be a lot less awkward than I am when I have to answer questions.” A good self-effacing joke for someone who delivered eloquent answers during this entire interview, including the rest of his answer.

“It is interesting. I think what’s different about what we’re hoping to achieve is, you know, Jason was involved in the music industry for many, many years and Rose is a huge independent movie producer and has produced massive movies, and so we’re kind of coming at — obviously,
I’m just an actor who’s been lucky enough to get a few jobs — but we’re kind of coming at it from a slightly different place because we’re essentially in the industry that we’re talking to the people about.
We found with the podcast and stuff, we were beginning to get answers or get to know the person in a slightly different way than you would if it was just somebody with a research packet looking through it and then going and asking these questions, because we all have a fairly deep understanding of what the entertainment industry kind of is and what it’s about, and the difficulties they’re in.”

He went on to add, “A lot of people will see, you know, people that we interview who are incredibly successful, but they won’t realize that they’ve had to really work really hard. That’s the one thing that we all know is that all across the board, they’re incredibly difficult professions to try and succeed in. I think it’s good for people to realize that it doesn’t just get handed to a lot of people, and you really have to put the work in.”

Like many folks reading this interview, I knew very little about the metaverse heading into this conversation, so I was eager to ask Rothberg how The Xavatar Show works. “As we were shifting into this Zoom reality, because of the pandemic, I do not enjoy being in front of the lens; I am behind the talent, behind the mixing board, and that’s really my safe zone,” he explained. “So, all work stopped for three years, and the only thing coming in was webinars. The idea with my two partners was to create a fun solution by using avatars for video conferencing.” Rothberg went on to explain the finer details of the project’s inception.

“Then once we realized that that technology actually was doing real time animation, it was our partner, Kevin Sharpley, who’s the visionary behind the Web3 metaverse play, he kept on whispering to me, “Metaverse, metaverse.” And I’m like, “What are you talking about?” This is before meta was meta, right? Nobody was talking about the metaverse. We knew pretty much Web3 was coming, and Gianfranco [Bianchi], our other partner, is a master in XR, VR, AR, all these alternative ways of seeing visuals, especially with animation.”

Rothberg continued on, “And for me, like Colin said, it was really important for us to have a terrestrial TV show with a radio connection. Those are my favorite mediums there. But it was Kevin that was like, “Man, this is a metaverse play.” Because audience members, we see everyone shifting from going to theaters and watching television to, like, getting 15-second clips on their phones. I think they’re doing that because they feel like it’s a deeper connection. It’s coming from the Elvis Costello feed or, you know, whatever celebrity they’re following. So, the metaverse, I think, provides that deeper connection, and through our show, we’re kind of unifying these different mediums. So it’s truly multi-medium.”

He went on to dole a little praise on O’Donoghue, “But I gotta go back and say one thing — Colin is so full of shit. Not only is he an incredible musician, which gets him on both sides, but he’s a producer on the show. Having his tutorage, you know, and I’ve worked in the industry for many years, but his insights into producing is mind-blowing. It was something I was actually shocked to actually see the levels of his knowledge and his foresight, and it has really kept the team going. So sorry, Colin, I had to just dump that little two-second moment for Maggie, so she understands he’s much more…” O’Donoghue interrupted the kind words with a laugh, “I only played it down so that he’d say something nice about me. That’s all.”

With mention of his music career, I was quick to point out that I knew all about O’Donoghue’s former, and still occasional, involvement with the Irish band The Enemies, and pressed him to know if he’d be making any returns to the industry. “Maybe. I’m sitting in my guitar room at the minute, so I have them all up there.” It sounds like Rothberg is eager to push him back in that direction, “We have very big exciting plans for Colin’s music stuff.” O’Donoghue just laughed, “I’m saying we’ll see. That’s what I’m saying.” And when I jested that it sounded like a ‘more to come’ situation, he agreed. “More to come.”

Related Best ‘Once Upon a Time’ Couples, From MadArcher to Captain Swan and Rumbelle There’s no love like fairytale love.

How Can Audiences Get Involved With ‘The Xavatar Show’
Like myself, you might be wondering how audiences can watch something like The Xavatar Show. The metaverse aspect implies that audiences can watch the talk show live, just like any daytime talk show on the air today. It sounds like that’s exactly what O’Donoghue and Rothberg have planned for the project, and it honestly sounds quite cool.

“Well, growing up in the ‘70s, you’d always hear, like, The Jeffersons or Good Times recorded in front of a live studio audience, and we don’t want to have canned laughter and clapping,” Rothberg explained. “Actually, there’s, I think, 30 to 60 seats where audience members will actually be able to listen and react, and some of them will be able to participate in asking questions to call in, or the guests. But more so, it’s about the activation of the fans and the stories, the films and music being created for entertainment, that they’ll have this new way of experiencing and connecting.” He went on to share details about recording with Elvis Costello.

”
I love to tell this example of Elvis Costello. We’ve recorded a couple of the artists already, so Elvis was one of the ones that we actually had an incredible interview with.
He’s telling us at one moment the memory he had of being called up for the music of
Cold Mountain.
He happened to be at the Bel-Air Hotel, and so he calls his buddy, T-Bone Burnett — who wouldn’t if that was your buddy? — and T-Bone rolls into the Bel-Air Hotel, and they find a grand piano, and in 20 minutes they sit down and write the song.
So, once you enter into the Xava-verse, you’ll be able to go into that Bel-Air environment, you’ll find the piano, and then there’ll actually be a game where it’s kind of like Guitar Hero, where you’ll have to learn how to help Elvis write the song for
Cold Mountain
.
”

As he wrapped up the explanation, Rothberg added more details about what’s to come, “It’s these kinds of things. There’ll be games based around the memories and stories. Potentially there’ll be live performances and meet-and-greets. Of course, there’ll be all kinds of wonderful retail opportunities. You’ll be able to buy concert tickets or band paraphernalia. Then I think the other side of it is connecting with other audience members that are also fans and want to have conversations and connect with each other. So, it’s multi-layered on how we’re trying to satisfy the audience and give them a deeper connection.”

Turning the Page on ‘Once Upon a Time’

Toward the midpoint of the conversation, I seized on the opportunity to talk about Once Upon a Time after O’Donoghue mistook my stuffed Alligator Loki for a very on-brand crocodile. Little did he know—though I did later reveal it—I have plenty of Captain Hook-themed merchandise stowed away. I also shared that I had purchased a prop from Once Upon a Time a few years ago. It wasn’t particularly exciting (Liam Jones’ enlistment papers from “Good Form”), but O’Donoghue instantly lit up. Before I had a chance to ask him if he kept anything from the series, he offered to show just “one thing” to me. With his camera in hand, he wandered to another room in his house where his iconic Captain Hook coat hung on the front of a dresser like it was waiting for this moment.

“Actually, it’s there because I found it at the bottom of the wardrobe and I thought, ‘I better hang that up or it’s gonna get all crumpled.’ I actually have my sword. I’ve got a few things. I have my sword here.
I have my whole costume, and I don’t know why I’m taking you on a tour.
I have a helmet there that I wore in one of the episodes, I have my whole costume, and I’ve got my hook downstairs. And I have the Excalibur sword. And I have a replica of my ship.”

With each mention of a prop, he held it up for me to see with nostalgic glee. “I took a lot. Well, ABC and Disney very kindly let me take my costume. They sort of okayed it. I mean, I don’t think it would fit anybody else. I’m not even sure it would fit me anymore, to be honest. I mean, look, I played the character for long enough. I think I deserve to take a few things.” From there he launched into a passionate description of why being part of the show was such an incredible experience, and continues to be one, saying:

“It was such a great show. It was such an amazing experience to be a part of something that still to this day means so much to so many people. It’s very rare that there are shows that families all across the board, from whatever age — seven, eight, nine, up to grandparents — can watch together, and there’s little bits in it for everybody. Eddie [Kitsis] and Adam [Horowitz] were very clear when I remember asking them, everything at the time was gritty, everything had to be gritty, and this and the other, and they said, “Well, we decided we want to go the complete opposite and make something just about hope.”

O’Donoghue added, “I mean, look, don’t get me wrong, Once Upon a Time can be incredibly dark at times, but to be a part of something that’s basically just about positivity and acceptance and hope was a massive, massive thing. Even to this day, people just absolutely love it and are finding it again. What’s happening now is I found that there are people who were maybe teenagers in the mid to late teens who now might have kids or small kids, whatever, and are beginning to re-watch it with their kids, and then they’re finding a whole new audience. So, yeah, it was a pretty incredible experience.”

Is a ‘Once Upon a Time’ Reunion on the Horizon?

While I had no intention of sharing what Once Upon a Time meant to me, I did mention that it had a pretty massive impact on my life. To that, O’Donoghue cheekily asked who my favorite was. Of course, the answer was Hook and Emma. Captain Swan. To that, he replied: “There you go! That’s all I wanted to know.” To escape his playful taunting about all of my Captain Hook merchandise being in storage, I asked him what he thought about the potential of a Once Upon a Time reunion now that the series—and some of its best episodes—have passed the 10-year mark.

“I think that the show could definitely go again. I mean, look, it’s a call for Eddie and Adam, really. I’ve spoken to them and a few other people about it, and I think what’s great about Once is I think that you could kind of come back and just pick up where it left off, or whatever that is.” Rothberg suggested that they could host the reunion in the metaverse, which O’Donoghue was amused by.

“Or a reunion in the metaverse. But, look, what was great about Once Upon a Time, and what was great about working on it was that every episode there was something new and fresh and different. There was a different world, there were different characters, there were different sorts of aspects of Disney and fairy tales.
Here’s the thing, fairy tales will never go out of fashion. They haven’t for hundreds of years, and I don’t see them going out of fashion anytime soon.
Also, there are no shows like that now at the minute, you know what I mean? I mean, don’t get me wrong, there’s tons of really incredible shows. But there’s nothing like that where it was a case of, families were literally excited to sit down on a Sunday night to watch it together and spend time with each other and talk about it. The community of people who came together because of Once Upon a Time is just incredible, like a family.”

‘Once Upon a Time’ Was Lightning in the Bottle

While a reunion may not be in the cards for the series at the moment, O’Donoghue still clearly enjoys reminiscing about the series. I noted that the end of Once Upon a Time marked the end of the era for twenty-two and twenty-three episode seasons. The series wrapped up in 2018, right as streaming started to dominate the conversation and, with it, ushered in a world of six-episode and eight-episode seasons spread out across far too many years to keep a fanbase alive.

“I think we did two seasons of 23 episodes. It’s incredible to think. And they’re hour-long episodes, 50 minutes or 55-minute episodes.” O’Donoghue recalled. “But I can understand how it would be incredibly difficult for the writers to try and keep it going. But yeah, there’s no shows that are doing that now. I mean, I guess Grey’s Anatomy or those types of shows are able to do it because of the fan base and the want for that stuff is there. We were close to the last kind of type of show to have those long seasons.” I went on to ask if he learned anything from working on the series (which was filmed in Vancouver, British Columbia) that he was able to take with him onto other series like The Right Stuff, and we ended up joking about how cold and wet filming in Canada was. Though, as he pointed out, Ireland’s weather isn’t so different.

“I’m used to it. I was wearing a black blouse in the middle of torrential rain. But what it teaches you is, well, one, I had done some movies and I did a really big movie with Anthony Hopkins, so I knew what it felt like to be on something big.
But I didn’t quite understand the scope of how big Once Upon a Time was when I came on to it because I hadn’t seen the first season. It wasn’t on in Ireland at that time. And so I walked on set, and I was literally stepping onto a full ship with hundreds of extras, Robert Carlyle right in front of me, huge boats with cranes on them, and we were sailing out to sea. I was like, ‘What the…?’
You know, I was wearing leather pants and eyeliner. I was like, ‘What is going on?’ But it gave me a good understanding of TV, and that world, and just essentially how it works. So I think that that was the major thing. Then the other side of it is, it was a huge amount of fun. I got to play a great character, so it was fun.”

While he may no longer be dealing with magic curses, Rumplestiltskin-shaped crocodiles, or setting sail on the Rolly Joger (if you know, you know), O’Donoghue can be found on The Xavatar Show in the metaverse, which is a magical realm all of its own. More information about Xavatar, and its innovative approach to media can be found at Xavatar.co.

Once Upon A Time Release Date October 23, 2011 Creator Edward Kitsis, Adam Horowitz Cast Lana Parrilla , Colin O’Donoghue , Robert Carlyle , Gabrielle Anwar , Dania Ramirez , Mekia Cox Main Genre Drama Seasons 7 Studio ABC

Watch on Disney+