The Big Picture

Collider’s Perri Nemiroff goes full
Cobra Kai
Season 6 Part 1 spoilers with show creators Hayden Schlossberg, Josh Heald, and Jon Hurwitz.
The trio discuss everything from Eli’s mohawk style to what that unearthed Sekai Taikai headband could
really
mean.
They also praise Peyton List’s work which includes a showstopping performance in Season 6, Episode 5.

[Editor’s note: The following contains spoilers through Cobra Kai, Season 6, Episode 5.]Are you ready for all of your Cobra Kai Season 6, Part 1 burning questions to be answered? Or at least as many as I could fit into a 30-minute chat with series creators Jon Hurwitz, Hayden Schlossberg, and Josh Heald? Then you’ve come to the right place. Given Netflix’s three-part release strategy for the final season of the hit series, these first five episodes gave us loads of goings-on to discuss and a significant number of questions regarding what lies ahead for Daniel (Ralph Macchio), Johnny (William Zabka), Chozen (Yuji Okumoto), and the Miyagi-do students.

Season 6, Episode 5 ends with an earth-shattering reveal. Despite all the progress she’s made throughout the show, after the passing of her mother, Tory (Peyton List) chooses to return to John Kreese (Martin Kove) and fight for Cobra Kai in Barcelona. What could that mean for her journey going forward, and where is Kreese in his storyline? Is he well beyond the point of being redeemable? And then, of course, there’s Daniel’s epic realization in the final moments of Episode 5. Mr. Miyagi (Pat Morita) was at a Sekai Taikai tournament. How is that going to impact how Daniel’s views his longtime mentor and the knowledge that he’s passed down?

Not only do we dig into all of that, but we also touch on Eli’s (Jacob Bertrand) mohawk style for the season, how they crafted that final fight between Miguel (Xolo Maridueña) and Robby (Tanner Buchanan), what to expect from some of the biggest episodes of the season, and loads more. You can hear it all straight from Hurwitz, Schlossberg and Heald in the video at the top of this article, or you can read the conversation in transcript form below.

PERRI NEMIROFF: Can you tell me how you landed on that particular hawk style for Eli this season? Was there any trial and error, or did you always know what you wanted?

JON HURWITZ: [Laughs] With the American flag mohawk? You know what? We’re at the Sekai Taikai, our team is the sole American team, and we wanted them to kind of enter a little bit as the ugly Americans in a certain way. You know, flaunting it out there, Johnny behaving the way he does. It was also just to make it where it was seemingly a foregone conclusion that Hawk’s gonna be along for the ride so that in Episode 4, when he gets knocked out, he had that mohawk for nothing, at least seemingly.

How did you come to the conclusion that in order to forward Daniel’s story, and the show in general, you had to unearth new information about Mr. Miyagi?

JOSH HEALD: For years we’ve been obsessed with Mr. Miyagi, obviously. We’ve always utilized his character and his legacy and his memory to drive Daniel’s story farther, and it’s always been positive. It’s always been, “Daniel backslides a little bit, Daniel remembers a lesson, and then remembers, ‘Oh, I have this tool in my toolbox. I have all the answers. I just need to remember them.’” This was kind of exploring the nightmarish version — the opposite. He doesn’t have a problem and then discovers a new toolbox, and inside that toolbox are things that are scary. [Laughs]

We’ve been talking with Robert Mark Kamen for years, who wrote the original franchise, created the character of Mr. Miyagi, and shares our enthusiasm and obsession with that character. It became something that we wanted to begin to peel back the layers of Mr. Miyagi and start to look at him as not just a deified figure but a man with a past with a long and storied life, not all of which he shared with Daniel. And what if Daniel were to come upon something, or multiple things, that might challenge his opinion of that man?

I have seen some folks concerned, “They’re gonna unearth new information about Mr. Miyagi, and it’s gonna heavily impact how I feel when I go back and watch the original films.” What would you tell someone out there who is concerned about how this new information is going to impact their repeat viewings of the movies?

HAYDEN SCHLOSSBERG: I think it will affect their repeat viewings, but hopefully in a way that they like when it’s all said and done. When you look at the original movie after seeing Cobra Kai, there’s a different way you’re looking at Johnny Lawrence. Our goal is only to explore the universe even more. For us, the storyline is really meant for an audience of people who get older and look at their mentors and parents, and learn more about them, and understand them in a deeper way. It doesn’t necessarily mean everything that happened beforehand is tarnished; you just understand the person better. I think that’s our goal ultimately at the end.

Mr. Miyagi’s Sekai Taikai Headband Might Not Mean What You Think
Image via Netflix

8:28 Related Ralph Macchio Warns of Daniel LaRusso’s Doubts About Mr. Miyagi in ‘Cobra Kai’ Season 6 Macchio also teases the thread that will connect ‘Cobra Kai’ with the upcoming ‘Karate Kid’ movie.

Can you tease anything about what it might mean that Mr. Miyagi has fought in the Sekai Taikai?

HURWITZ: It means that his relationship to tournaments is maybe a little bit different than what Daniel thought it was and what we were led to believe in the past. First of all, we don’t know if he fought in the Sekai Taikai. We just know that he has a headband from the Sekai Taikai. We don’t know what exactly happened there to this point. You’ll have to watch further to find out more about that. But I think there’s a lot of intrigue as Daniel enters the middle five episodes and he’s at the Sekai Taikai. He certainly wants to know more about what went on there and if anyone maybe knows anything about the history.

SCHLOSSBERG: If you look at the original movie, Mr. Miyagi makes it pretty clear that he hasn’t been in tournaments before to Daniel, so you can interpret that as a conflict that Daniel is gonna have to deal with. Why would he not say anything about this and act as if that’s not a part of his past if it is? Again, like Jon said, it’s a headband that could be anybody’s. Daniel assumes he fought in the Sekai Taikai.

What can you tell us about the show structure going forward? Is the Sekai Taikai tournament going to be confined to Part 2, or is it going to bleed into Part 3 as well?

HEALD: The Sekai Taikai has begun at the end of Part 1 and will continue into Part 2, is what I can tell you. I can say it’s a tournament like you’ve never seen before. Any idea of what you think a tournament is in the universe of The Karate Kid or Cobra Kai will be completely upended. It will be absolutely nothing like an All Valley. Buckle your seatbelts.

Brandon H. Lee Is an Undeniable Star
Image via Netflix

I want to move to Kwon for a minute. Can you walk us through the creation of that particular character and figuring out what qualities you wanted him to have that you thought would pair well with where you wanted to take the Miyagi-do characters this season?

SCHLOSSBERG: We knew that we wanted to see Sensei Kim Da-Eun’s dojo and her students who’ve been training even longer than our students, and create this threat. When we thought about the personalities and the new characters that we wanted to bring into the story, we wanted to create somebody who was the ultimate, next-level, this-is-Season-6-of-Cobra-Kai, highest-level bully/martial artist expert. Brandon Lee is just an amazing martial artist in real life. We had him audition, and he did such a great job. We purposely made it so that he was the bad kid in that class. So when you’re going into Sensei Kim’s class, he’s the one who’s the bully of all those kids, but because of that, he’s not the one who’s falling in line.

We like the idea of, “Okay, well, Kreese has something to teach him.” He gives him direction, and he takes this kid who’s the baddest, meanest kid that we’ve seen yet in this universe, tweaks him, and gets him ready to take on our kids. We wanted it to feel like we had this White Walker Army happening in South Korea, and Kreese is just taking this kid and weaponizing him.

Given how you just described him, does Kwon have any limits? Is there any particular line he won’t cross?

HURWITZ: We’re gonna have to find that out. There’s more of Kwon to be seen. All I can say is that we love Kwon as a character. Brandon H. Lee’s performance was phenomenal.

One fun thing that I’ll just add is that when we first saw his audition, he had his slate first where he introduces himself and all that, and we saw the sweetest kid in the world talking about how he’s a huge fan of Cobra Kai, and it was just the most adorable kind of thing. And then he does his audition and he was kind of a badass, but we had just seen him be so nice that when we called him back in, we gave him full direction and we just said, “You’re the baddest guy on the show, in a sense. You’re the toughest guy. You gotta be scary to our kids, and you gotta be disrespectful, and you don’t give a shit about anything.” His audition immediately after that was just a whole new level. On our show we have this history of characters that are the bad guy, and all of the actors who play them are just the nicest people in the world, and he’s no different.

‘Cobra Kai’ Creators Confirm the Moment When John Kreese Became Irredeemable
Image via Netflix

Let’s lean into Kreese. At this point in the story, do you think Kreese is redeemable?

HEALD: I think there was a moment where Kreese was redeemable, but it was taken from him. I think Kreese started to show the cracks and the vulnerabilities and the warmth that was going to kind of take that volcanic shell that’s on him, full of hate and vitriol, and it was going to cut through. He showed it, and it was interpreted as weakness by Silver, and Silver struck and struck hard. And yet there was still a yearning within Kreese to find a way back. When Johnny and Daniel visited him in prison, and even when Tory was there and he had warmth for her, there was still this hope that there could be a reconciliation. But when Johnny and Daniel turn their back on him so coldly, and when Kreese was put into a corner that he had to kind of chew his way out of, I think that was the point of no return for John Kreese. He’s coming into the world, and hell’s coming with him. We’ll see what is wrought.

If I asked Marty [Kove] that same question, would he have the same answer? [Laughs]

HEALD: [Laughs] He’d use more Western analogies, but the same answer, yes.

I’m going lean heavily into Episode 5 now because I think it’s pretty exceptional for a number of reasons. There’s one particular storyline and performance in it though that truly blows my mind. It’s the Tory storyline, and Peyton List’s work in that particular part of the show. At what point in the writing process did you all decide that the passing of Tory’s mother was necessary at this point in the story?

SCHLOSSBERG: We always knew that we were going to pay off the sick mother backstory that was going on in her life. We didn’t want to leave that unresolved. Either she was going to get better or she was going to die, and for us, we’re always trying to put our characters through as much conflict as possible to make it where they’re as strong as possible at the end. For her, she has a lot of ground to cover from the first two seasons of the show where she was breaking into houses and beating the shit out of people. For us who are like, “How do you understand that character? Why would a character do that?” It’s because she has some mental issues stemming from having so much on her plate. Just as things are starting to come together for her, to have the rug get pulled out from underneath her just puts her in the most difficult place.

For us, we’re always trying to find conflict for our characters on the show, and with these first five episodes, the challenge is there is no conflict for the characters for the first time, externally. Their rivalries are over. They’re friends now. Cobra Kai is gone, at least in the Valley, and yet it’s everything that’s internal, from what’s going on in their lives to the competition that’s between them, that drives the conflict in these first five episodes. And she’s the one who has to deal with it the most, and Peyton is just amazing. Everything that we threw at her, she knocked out of the park.

Peyton List “Gets It, She Shows Up, She Delivers”

Obviously, Peyton is a professional and she knows what she’s doing, but for the three of you, what are some particular things that you aimed to do for her in order to support her and set her up for this much success while handling such an emotional part of Tory’s story?

HURWITZ: She’s been phenomenal from the beginning on our show. I remember seeing her audition tape, and we were just like, “That’s Tory.” And then just working with her, we’ve seen that any challenge that we’ve given her, she’s risen to the occasion. She’s really directable and there’s such soulfulness in her performance, and she’s funny, and she’s learned martial arts. At the beginning, she entered the show knowing nothing, and she had no time to train way back when, and now her martial arts is at a whole new level. She puts in the work, she cares, she lives as the character, as you need to.

For this, we knew that at the end of this episode, we wanted Tory to rejoin Cobra Kai, and we needed the way to get her there. And this was the way that was gonna get her to do this, put her in a place where she’s feeling good, finally, after all this time, and then take it away from her with a little whisper in the ear from Sensei Kreese. She felt like this was her only option. In terms of Peyton, she gets the scripts, and, it’s so funny, she’s not somebody who ever reaches out with any questions. She just gets it on the page. She gets it, she shows up, she delivers. If there’s any adjustment that needs to be made, you direct her and the next take, it’s there. She’s been doing this forever in her life, but to play a character like this, it’s so different than anything she’s ever done, and she’s got every tool in the toolbox.

I want narrow the focus to writing a particular scene in that episode. And I believe Michael Jonathan Smith is credited as the writer on Episode 5. Can you talk a little bit about working with him on this — crafting the conversation that happens after the fight between Sam and Tory is stopped? It’s a really beautifully written and structured piece that obviously serves Tory quite well, but by cutting to other people at just the right moments, it also re-highlights the dynamics that we’ve been exploring in terms of family, friends and what it means to be a sensei all throughout the show.

HEALD: It was a heavy moment to do that to a character. Not that we have any particular affinity for Tory’s mom as a living, breathing character — we’ve never seen her face until this episode for the first time — but as a stand-in for somebody that Tory cares about and as a storyline, it’s been tremendously important. It’s been the main thing kind of looming over Tory’s life the whole time that we’ve known Tory and that we had any knowledge of what’s happening behind the scenes. So the idea that this would happen right at the moment of everything kind of seemingly coming together for her was meant to be devastating. Not only is it devastating for her, but you see it on Amanda’s face. The moment that Amanda comes over and tells Daniel, “We have to stop the fight,” I get goosebumps in that moment. We were there at the story construction of this, but it’s a magic trick that works on us every time — the moment Peyton screams out, “Because my mom died,” it just echoes out into the yard. The empathy on Johnny’s face, on Daniel’s face, the trauma for Sam realizing that this former rival that’s now a friend, it’s all just soul-crushing.

And then you just see the dominos start to fall. You see why Johnny feels differently than Daniel, that he’s not just using that moment to say, “I disagree with you.” We pop inside and we see that he’s relating that to the moment that his mother passed and how he felt then, and that Daniel wouldn’t have that muscle memory. And, of course, everyone gets their hackles up. People say things that are inappropriate and that are flying in the face of reason, and you can see how something good can just all fall apart in a moment.

Everyone just brought their A-game with it. Michael did a tremendous job, as always, with the script. The writers’ room really put a lot of pressure on ourselves for those mid-season finales, as we call them — the Episode 5s, and in this case, the Episode 10s, as well. They have to be worthy of a break, and it was firing on all cylinders.

HURWITZ: In the writers’ room with that kind of thing, we discuss in detail what each person there is thinking. We do that throughout every moment that characters are on screen, but a moment like that in particular where you’re nearing the end of an episode with something so major happening, it’s like, “Okay, how does Sam feel? How does Robby feel? How does Daniel feel? How does each person feel?” You’re just going down the list, and you construct that all together, and Michael did a great job putting it all together.

Because you brought that up, is there any particular character who is more in the background, but you all figured out what this individual was thinking so people should keep an eye out for their reaction in this moment?

HURWITZ: I wouldn’t say necessarily anyone more than anybody else because you’re gonna pay attention to everybody, but even Devon, for example, somebody who has gone through a mother passing in her own life. Every single character we’re thinking about there. Even if you’re not super focused on them in the moment, each actor knows what they’re supposed to do, and the camera is capturing them.

How Team ‘Cobra Kai’ Crafted That Episode 5 Robby vs. Miguel Fight
Image via Netflix

6:10 Related ‘Cobra Kai’ Creators Reveal Which Character Will Be Most Changed at the End of the Series Josh Heald, Jon Hurwitz and Hayden Schlossberg also explain why the Season 6 story is best told in three parts.

I’ll briefly jump to Robby and Miguel next for their final fight of Part 1. When crafting a fight like that, what is it like figuring out who needs to win a point and when?

SCHLOSSBERG: It’s so interesting because we’ve done a lot of three-point matches in honor of the tournament. There’s only a certain number of permutations of how a fight like that could go. Is it back and forth and back and forth? Is it one person dominating and then one person coming back? It’s all a question of the story that you want to tell. I think we built things up with the two of those characters where you’re on both of their sides, and they both have something to fight for. They’re both a little bit on edge and off-tilt going into that fight because they’re maybe putting a little bit too much pressure on themselves. And so we wanted it where they’re both in a bad place, but at least Miguel has Sam there and has all the support, and Robby doesn’t have Tory. So that’s why things start out the way they do. And then Tory comes in, and he gets his mojo back and his motivation and comes back, which puts Miguel more off-balance, and ultimately is why he lost.

You think about it in those terms. But it’s all about what you want with the characters. I think, also, there, because Robby’s come in second place a bunch of times, it’s an opportunity here for him to have this win, which, the past times that we’ve seen in these big fights, he either loses or kicks Miguel off a balcony. [Laughs] So, finally something good happens in a fight with Robby, and we like that.

I’ll ask you one question to tease the remaining episodes of Season 6. If you each had to pick a single favorite episode, what would it be and why?

HURWITZ: First of all, I want to say that all 10 are great, but I’m gonna say, without question, for me, it’s the finale because that’s the culmination of stuff that we’ve been building towards since day one. There are scenes in that episode that we’ve been talking about when it was just the three of us before we pitched the show to Ralph [Macchio] and Billy [Zabka], even. Things that we’ve been hoping to do for all these years. So there are elements of that. The performances from the actors are wonderful. I don’t want to spoil anything about it by saying too much, but I will just say that we feel confident that it’s gonna be a finale that people are gonna like instead of being angry and feeling like we screwed it up and dropped the ball at the last second. I think people are gonna be fulfilled and very pleased.

I trust you guys.

HEALD: It’s hard not to say the finale. It’s so special to be able to reach that point and write with intent to get to that point of typing, “The End.” That episode aside, Episode 10 is one that will be talked about for a long time — not just because there’s gonna be a break between Episode 10 and, ultimately, the third part, but it is something. I don’t even know what I could say about it that wouldn’t be a spoiler. I don’t know what verbiage I could use, but it is something. There’s a couple of episodes this season where I can’t believe we did something that we set out to do, and that episode and Episode 14 each have something in them that takes the show to a bigger place.

Image via Netflix

Are you seeing me hating myself for asking this question? [Laughs]

SCHLOSSBERG: I’m just gonna say Episode 613, the 13th episode. Honestly, the last three episodes have amazing moments. The others are horrible. [Laughs] No, it’s just, I think you feel us ramping towards the end, but I’ll just say you really start to feel it in 613. I think those last three episodes have these big payoffs. We obviously saved a lot of big things for the end, and so you start to see it, not just in the last episode but in the episode prior.

We have a date for Part 2. Do you know when we’ll find out when Part 3 is coming out?

HURWITZ: I’m not sure. They haven’t told us the plan yet as to when that will be announced. I know it’s next year, but they have not told us when the specific date will go out there.

SCHLOSSBERG: We do have an idea of when it is. Sometimes we don’t know. [Laughs]

HEALD: [Laughs] Sometimes they change it around and want to have a little flexibility also, so the date that we have in our brains right now might not even be the date that ultimately gets announced. We’ll have to wait and see.

Cobra Kai Thirty-four years after events of the 1984 All Valley Karate Tournament, a down-and-out Johnny Lawrence seeks redemption by reopening the infamous Cobra Kai dojo, reigniting his rivalry with a now successful Daniel LaRusso.Release Date May 2, 2018 Creator Josh Heald, Jon Hurwitz, Hayden Schlossberg Main Genre Comedy Seasons 6 Streaming Service(s) Netflix Expand

Cobra Kai Season 6, Part 1 is now available to stream on Netflix.

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