The Big Picture

Collider’s Perri Nemiroff sits down with
Those About to Die
‘s Roland Emmerich, Iwan Rheon, and Gabriella Pession for an exclusive Q&A.
Writer-director Emmerich discusses his leap to TV, which was inspired by
Game of Thrones
, his fascination with the Roman Empire, and his first time working with Volume technology.
Rheon and Pession delve into their characters and the pursuit of power in Ancient Rome, discuss their costars, and which episodes they can’t wait for viewers to see.

Roland Emmerich has been to 10,000 BC and back again. He’s dealt in alien invasions, Earth-shattering climate change, and celestial catastrophe, but never has the director worked in the television sphere. So what was it about Peacock’s latest sword-and-sandal series, Those About to Die, that convinced him to make the leap?

Following our advanced screening of Episode 1, Collider’s Perri Nemiroff moderated an exclusive Q&A with Emmerich and co-stars Iwan Rheon, who plays the sly, lowborn Tenax, and Gabriella Pession, who plays the cunning and fearless Antonia. The two represent the plebeian and patrician classes of Ancient Rome in 79 AD, respectively, and discuss the ways their characters manipulate the system, whether from clawing their way up by any means necessary, or defying social norms, driven by the “pursuit of power.” Emmerich shares the challenges and joys of making the move to TV, working on the Volume stage, and teases explosive, deadly episodes he can’t wait for viewers to experience.

In addition to the multiple Academy Award-winning Anthony Hopkins as Emperor Vespasian, Rheon and Pession, Those About to Die features Jojo Macari and Tom Hughes as Vespasian’s sons, Domitian and Titus, Sara Martins as a Cala, a Numidian trader, Moe Hashim as Kwame, Cala’s son and a captured lion hunter forced into gladiatorial slavery, and Dimitri Leonidas as the celebrated charioteer, Scorpus.

Check out the full conversation in the video above or you can read the transcript below.

PERRI NEMIROFF: Roland, Those About to Die marks your very first time directing for television. Have you ever had the opportunity to direct TV before, and if so, why not then and why now with this?

ROLAND EMMERICH: I had to be convinced, and I think Game of Thrones convinced me that the level is reached. I thought, “Oh my god, this is so good. I want to do that, too.” Then, naturally, I have a long fascination with the Roman Empire and that then triggered us to develop something.

We’ve seen you do everything on the big screen in your feature films. Can you tell me something specific about directing TV that came with a little bit of a learning curve for you?

EMMERICH: It’s just that everything has to happen faster. You cannot do endless takes, so you have to kind of figure it out. Luckily, there was a technology that was totally new for me, and I shot 108 days on that kind of stage alone. It was called the Volume stage, and that was pretty cool because you can see everything. It replaces, more or less, blue screen.

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Iwan and Gabriella, can you each tell me something about Those About to Die that you were really excited to get to do when making the show, but also, can you name something that was more creatively fulfilling to do than you ever could have imagined at the start?

GABRIELLA PESSION: Obviously, it was amazing to be part of this team because of Roland. I was a big fan of his work. The script really got me fully into it, and the role was just the role I was waiting for for 25 years of acting. So, that was really the thing that pulled me into it. I love to play– it’s not even a villain, it’s a complex character that has so many shades, and there’s nothing that she’s not able to do. This freedom of being able to push her in mad directions was the thing that really attracted me.

The most creative aspect has been—I’ll give you a funny example—I have a scene where something really dramatic happens that I can’t spoil, but actually, when these scenes happen, I’m looking into a thing and there’s a wall behind it. I have to have all these whole expressions and this world coming out of me, but I’m actually looking at the wall. In the show, you’ll see what happens, but the real work we do is just completely sense memory. An actor has to really imagine what’s happening, and that’s your performance. That was really challenging.

Image via Peacock

I know what you’re talking about! I feel like folks undervalue how important reaction shots are. The action isn’t as compelling unless those reactions are good.

PESSIONS: Completely. I was terrified by that. I was like, “How the hell do I do this?” Then I turn off the intellectual mind, and I’m like, “Listen, just follow the instinct.” But yeah, that’s very creative. Very creative.

IWAN RHEON: Obviously, just to get to work with Roland, of course. Reading the script for the first time, I just loved how fast it was and how Episode 1 moved so quickly. You get introduced to this world, this real cross-section of Roman society in the year 79, and I don’t think that’s really been shown before on TV. That’s something that’s really exciting for me to do and to get to play. This character, who’s sort of like the glue, he’s always moving around every aspect of that world and trying to spin all of his plates, and although some of them fall on the floor, he puts another one up. It’s a constant battle for him. His life is incredibly stressful.

For me, creatively, because you can play status, when he’s in his world, he’s high status, but then when he goes into the other worlds — for example, when he’s speaking to the son of an emperor — then he has to know how to play that scene and that situation without getting himself killed. They were the things that I really enjoyed, playing the subtleties of how his relationship was with every other person, and how he knows how to play every situation to his advantage. That was really fun for me to do.

Image via Peacock

You both brought up how excited you were to work with Roland, so I’m gonna put you on the spot. What’s your favorite Roland Emmerich movie? I know what mine is.

RHEON: Independence Day.

That’s a big part of the reason why I’m in this seat today. If it wasn’t for Independence Day and Jurassic Park, I wouldn’t be in this business.

PESSION: Me too. The Day After Tomorrow and Independence Day. I grew up with them.

‘Those About to Die’ Offered the Role of a Lifetime
Image via Peacock

Gabriella, I wanted to follow up on something I heard you mention in another interview that really caught my ear. You mentioned that this particular role reawakened your love of being an actor. That’s really special. What was it about this role and this project that did that for you?

PESSION: It’s very hard, especially where I come from in Italy, to read very compelling female characters, so I was suffering from the offer always being a bit the same and a bit repetitive. When boredom comes into your work, it’s a killer. It really kills the creativity and the fantasy, and how you approach this business and this job. So, when this role came — I’m a Scorpio, so I have a very strong instinct. [Roland’s] a Scorpio, too, by the way — I just knew this is a role where I can actually play so many different things. There’s nothing really wrong with that, because you can really finally create something. It’s like being a painter with a thing full of colors, and you put all these colors on the canvas, and something mad will come up, but at least it’s creative. I was really, really longing for something like this.

Obviously, I’ve been trying to work in the international market for years, and it’s not easy for an Italian actress because of my accent and because of many reasons. I’ve been trying to get the role internationally for a lifetime, and I had kind of come to a point where I was like, “This is not gonna happen for me.” So then I moved back to Rome and I met Roland. Roland was trying to convince me to play another role because he said to me, “You’re too young to play Antonia. She’s 45.” I took out my ID, and I’m like, “I am 45. I want to be Antonia. You’re not gonna give this role to anybody else.” I’m like, “You can’t fool me with this. I am exactly this age. You can make me older. I don’t care.”

So for me, all those things together have been like a dream. Not to mention I shot the show where I live. I live in Rome, so I actually shot this amazing show with all these amazing people in my city. This has been a gift in my career. I’m very grateful.

Related Anthony Hopkins Rules the Empire in New ‘Those About To Die’ Images The Ancient Rome-set miniseries premieres on Peacock this summer.

I wanna talk a little bit about setting the show in 79 AD. Roland, when you first decided on that with Robert [Rodat], what aspect of life in Rome during that time period were you most excited to bring to the screen, but then also, can you name something that surprised you and became a bigger part of the show than you originally imagined?

EMMERICH: I was actually really surprised that we chose Vespasian because Vespasian was a general; he was good at organization, but he had no idea, really, how to run a whole empire. I think he grew into that very fast. He did something really smart; he tore down Nero’s Golden House and, on that territory, built the Flavian Amphitheater, which still stands today as the Colosseum. That was such a gift for Rome. Sports were so important. He also followed what his son, Domitian, probably told him.

Iwan Rheon’s Tenax “Gets Himself Into a Lot of Trouble” This Season
Image via Peacock

Iwan, I wanna come your way to talk a little bit about Tenax because he’s a fascinating, multi-layered character. He clearly has a heart and makes some good decisions, but then he also makes some morally dubious ones. Do you have to come up with an anchor for a character like that, where no matter what kind of decision he makes, it’s based in some sort of consistent truth?

RHEON: He is morally dubious, but he’s a product of his environment. He grew up on the streets as a child. He was hopeless, and he’s clawed his way to this position through extreme difficulty. It’s survival. So everything he does is business. He doesn’t do it because he enjoys it. He doesn’t want to have to kill people, but unfortunately, if you get in his way, or you owe him money or whatever, he’s got to create this persona that everybody else sees him as.

For me playing him, the interesting thing is the moments when he gets to drop that facade, I suppose, the self-projection that he does. I think that’s lovely when you get to know him throughout the series, especially with his relationship with Cala. Without giving too much away, you see that he’s actually got a real heart, and he’s not a monster. He’s just doing what he has to do to survive. Unfortunately, he makes decisions, and he has to follow them through. He makes some pretty big decisions as the series goes on, and he gets himself into a lot of trouble through those decisions. But if you want someone who’s good in a crisis situation, Tenax is your guy.

‘Those About to Die’s Antonia “Has This Courage That Is Attached to Madness”
Image via Peacock

Gabriella, there’s a lot that everyone has not seen with Antonia that’s gonna happen later in the season, but I want to ask you about making such a big first impression, in particular in that scene in Episode 1 where she’s with all the other faction owners. She steps in and she speaks up, even though it’s basically highly illegal and could get her killed. What do you think it is about her that gives her a greater sense of urgency to speak up on the matter than her husband?

PESSION: I think she’s the strategic mind behind her husband. Her husband is military, so he’s not really a politician. Back then, in Ancient Rome, women were not allowed to sit in the Senate or to have any kind of political role in society. Antonia is a politician, really, and she’s blinded by the pursuit of power. She wants to get what she wants, and that’s what I love about the character. When you’re so driven, it’s like a wild horse that runs so fast, you might as well get against something because you can’t stop. She’s fearless, so she doesn’t think about consequences. She just does whatever she thinks is the thing to do, and the urgency is that, “We need to stop the Flavians. Nothing else. It might be risky, but we’re gonna do it.”

She has this kind of courage that is attached to madness, as well. It’s not just courage. I think it’s driven by ego. She’s probably a narcissist. She’s probably an ego-driven woman. When you’re like Narciso, he died because he looked at himself in the lake, and then you know what happens. So, you gotta be careful with those characters and with those personalities. So, I think she’s a bit mad, which I love.

I feel like they all are a little bit.

I wanna circle back to effects with you, Roland. Can you walk us through how you all found the right balance between practical effects and visual effects for the series?

EMMERICH: Whatever you do, when you do a visual effects show, characters are the most important. This all starts with the characters. What also was really a gift to us was the Volume stage. It was just the perfect way. We had a couple of blue screen scenes, but they were very minimal. At the end, I shot more or less 1,800 shots in the Volume stage, which all stayed there, and only maybe 30 or 40 had to be corrected. Then on top of that, naturally, we had to do all the wide shots, which were 400 or 500, and then a lot of blood shots. You have no time to really do blood, so you’re like, “Well, let’s do them in post.”

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I don’t know what this says about me, but I love talking about blood in a show, so I’m gonna follow up on that. Of all of the non-spoiler gorier scenes we see in Those About to Die, which one was the most difficult to execute on the day?

EMMERICH: I think maybe the crocodiles.

PESSION: We also had a giraffe and an elephant, and they escaped a lot.

EMMERICH: Well, they escaped once, and I banished them off the show. [Laughs] I said, “I’m not shooting these two animals.”

RHEON: I think they went on strike, didn’t they?

EMMERICH: They chased them through the whole Cinecittà. It was kind of wild. They even had T-shirts made then. On the front, it was like, “They chased the animals,” and then on the back, it was like, “The animals chased them.” [Laughs]

RHEON: Fantastic T-shirt.

‘Those About to Die’s Standout Star Almost Wasn’t Cast
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Circling back now to some of your co-stars. I wish I could sit here and highlight every single person. We sadly don’t have time, so I’m gonna pick two people. The first is gonna be Dimitri [Leonidas], who plays Scorpus in the show. Scorpus has this one-of-a-kind energy, and he absolutely nails his gravitas and bravado. Is there anything you saw him do on set that made you think, “This is why you’re one-of-a-kind in this role and bring that kind of energy to it?”

RHEON: I knew Dimitri. I’d worked with him before. He played my brother in another TV show, believe it or not. I don’t know how that works. Weird — different fathers. But the first day he was filming, he came in and he was doing it in his accent, his normal accent, as he’s from London. Then he comes in, and we’re about to do another take, and he goes, “Listen to me, mate,” [laughs], “Roland wants me to try this accent.” And I was like, “Okay?” He’s like, “So I’m gonna be doing an accent, okay?” I was like, “Okay?” [Laughs] Then he comes, and he’s like, [in an exaggerated Italian accent] “I am Scorpus.” I was like, “Oh! Alright, okay!” And I just about managed to get through without laughing, although I did laugh.

EMMERICH: Nobody wanted to cast him.

PESSION: Why?

EMMERICH: Because they wanted to have a bigger name. It’s always kind of the same story, and he was so perfect for it. There’s nobody more perfect for this part than him.

RHEON: He’s amazing.

PESSION: I love that he speaks in the third person when he talks about Scorpus, and I think that’s amazing.

RHEON: What an amazing device. That wasn’t in the script at the beginning, was it? It came in, didn’t it?

EMMERICH: Not at the beginning, but then somebody had the idea, like, “Why does he not talk in the third person?”

It’s perfect.

RHEON: Oh, he drives Tenax mad. He absolutely drives him mad, but Tenax loves him so much.

PESSION: He entertains Antonia, though.

That is accurate!

I wanted to go back to Sara briefly with you, Iwan, because your chemistry in this show is something else. I love what the two of you are doing together here. Can you tell me something about working with her as a scene partner that you appreciated and helped bring something out of you as an actor that you might not have been able to reach without her?

RHEON: I think what was cool is that we didn’t really know each other, and the characters don’t know each other, obviously, at the beginning. Our first stuff was all in Tenax’s apartment, so we did essentially the entire arc of the series from Episode 1 to 10 in Tenax’s apartment first. We kind of got to know each other at the same time, which was cool. She’s a wonderful human being to start with, so she’s really lovely to be around. She’s brought so much to the character, and she made it really easy for me. We developed together, which was nice to get to do it that way instead of maybe starting in a scene where you’ve got a relationship.

Image via Peacock

We already had that vibe, so then when we went to other sets in different locations, we already had this natural respect, I suppose, and trust in each other, and when you trust another actor, it makes a huge difference because you feel safe. We could just play with each other and have a good time. I think she’s amazing. She’s wonderful.

I 100% agree with that.

‘Those About to Die’ Season 1 Is Explosive
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You already mentioned crocodiles, but I do want to force you to tease what’s to come for everybody a little more. Can you each tell me what your absolute favorite episode of the season is and why?

RHEON: Episode 5 because there’s something that happened in the year 79 which was quite explosive. I remember reading it in the script and being like, “Oh my god, this is so cool that they’re using this.” That’s all I’m gonna say.

PESSION: It’s not that cool because it’s the only thing we didn’t do in special effects. So with this explosion, I got to breathe a lot of stuff. I was asking Roland, “Why is this not special effects?” They all had masks and stuff.

EMMERICH: [Laughs] We were all covered up.

PESSION: But I wasn’t, so I was trying to do the take because I had this thing, and I’m trying to cover myself, and Roland is like, “Come on, take this off.” Anyway, this thing in the fifth episode is giant and painful. [Laughs]

RHEON: Are we talking about Scorpus? What? [Laughs] Oh, I’m sorry.

EMMERICH: I have a couple of favorite scenes, but they would all give something away.

You directed the last two episodes, right? I’ll tease for everybody — those last two episodes and the action that goes down in them is something else.

EMMERICH: I always believe that the last two episodes have to be really, really good, otherwise, why would you want to see another season? So I packed everything that I could into these two episodes. It’s like nonstop action, and also nonstop emotional action. For example, she sees somebody die, which is very close to her heart, which is great because you have this constant back and forth between action, emotion, action, emotion. That’s really important.

Both elements are quite impressive in those last two episodes.

AUDIENCE: What inspires all of you to do what you do?

EMMERICH: I just cannot do anything different. [Laughs] I didn’t learn anything — no, I’m kidding. It’s just so much fun to make movies. Sometimes, in a way, it’s difficult to do, and you have to watch so many different things. But in the end, it’s just fun. It’s fun to do that.

PESSION: For me, I think I had an epiphany of what our job is when, many years ago, I went to this place where old people live, like a nursing home. Sometimes actors can have an ego; they complain, even though we’re very privileged to do our work, and it’s an amazing, amazing job we do. But then this old lady said to me, “I love to wait for you because you keep me alive every year. I wait for you on TV.” That really stayed with me forever. In the ups and downs of this career, which is not always easy, I remember this woman telling me this. That’s really in my heart, and it’s really honest what I’m saying. We’re storytellers. We’re telling you guys stories. We’re sharing emotions. That’s what we do. We’re just a vehicle for emotions and telling stories.

RHEON: For me, in a way, it’s kind of a release. Think of me sometimes as a sort of dormant volcano, and when it erupts, you’ve got to have a way to channel that energy, or something will get completely covered by pyroclastic dust. [Laughs] Anyway, that’s it. I just like doing it. It’s fun.

Roland Emmerich Believes People Turned Against the Volume Too Soon

AUDIENCE: What was challenging about using the Volume and that new technology?

EMMERICH: First, you have to set it up, which is not easy. You kinda have to figure out how to create light in front of the stage which fits the background. Then, naturally, the actors come in, and most of the time, they see what’s already been tried out endlessly. We had a lot of problems with the height of this wall because I’ve always shot with very, very wide lenses, and I refuse to shoot in any other style. I used all kinds of tricks to overcome that. But in essence, it was, at the beginning, not as good as it later was. There was a really clear, over the 108 days of shooting, learning curve. We got really, really good at it.

Also, there are a lot of people I think who turned against the Volume stage too early. They don’t know what it really means, and that you have natural reflections. Everything is natural. You have to be really careful what lenses you use because if you use, all of a sudden, a too-long lens, it becomes too out of focus, so you have then to go in, and we had a crane, and we went in and did that. But it was also really, really fun. It’s just incredible technology.

RHEON: It can make you feel a bit seasick when you’re on the set. If you’re walking and the camera’s behind you and the whole thing is moving, you’re like, “Whoa.”

PESSION: I didn’t realize this when I was on that stage. I just saw this huge statue of Nero there, moving, and I was like, “Is it me?” It was so bizarre because I didn’t know.

EMMERICH: You have a tracking system. The camera has to be guided by a tracking system because it’s a lot about where Nero is at that point. It was important. And at the very beginning, we had no tracking, and it was very limiting. I said, “Can we please have tracking?” And then DNEG, which is a great visual effects company that did most of the time half of the effects, they said, “Okay, we’ll give you tracking, and that made all the difference.”

AUDIENCE: What’s it like filming with an international team?

EMMERICH: When you want to use the full tax rebate, you have to find all the talented people in Rome and in Italy who come from all over the place. Then naturally, actor-wise, it was a lot who can speak very good English.

PESSION: Thank you. [Laughs]

RHEON: I’m not bad either. I think I improved during the series.

EMMERICH: It was also really good because I actually prefer English actors. My favorite film is Anonymous, and that’s all English, theater actors.

RHEON: What about Welsh actors?

PESSION: [Laughs] For me, it was funny because I was the only one Italian and the crew are all my friends, like the crew and makeup and hair, we’ve done many movies together. So, I could understand everything they were saying, so I knew what was happening on both sides. That was fun.

PERRI NEMIROFF: Before we let you go, I’m ending on my personal favorite question. In this industry, we give each other awards, and that’s super cool. We should keep doing that. But nobody tells themselves good job nearly enough. Can you each tell me something you do in Those About to Die that you know you’ll be able to look back on and say, “I’m so proud of what I did there?”

RHEON: So, very much like a volcano, I erupt pretty good. [Laughs] I think I do some really good walking around in sand. Hey, it’s not easy. You get sand in your sandals. [To Gabriella] You might not know about this. You never went in the sand very much. She’s patrician class. Not like us down in the lower levels. Yeah, a lot of walking. Some really good, fast walking.

PESSION: This sounds very silly what I’m saying, but I’m very proud that I had fun. I was able to actually enjoy my work, being surprised every day, and really be happy, which is not that obvious because we always project things. Our ego is always saying, “Oh, we should get there and do this.” No. I was simply happy and joyful, and that’s what I’m proud of that I was able to achieve.

That’s not silly at all. That’s one of the most important things on a production.

EMMERICH: I had to get used to the speed. [Laughs] It was murderous. But I think we got it all done in time, and I’m very proud of that because you can say all kinds of things, but at the end, it’s about how many hours you have, and that’s where I have to do it.

Those About to Die is available to stream exclusively on Peacock.

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