The Big Picture

Collider’s Perri Nemiroff sits down with
The Babadook
writer and director Jennifer Kent at Fantastic Fest 2024 for the movie’s 10th Anniversary.

The Babadook
is a horror movie about a mother and son terrorized by a sinister manifestation from a mysterious book.
During this interview, Kent discusses how horror allows filmmakers to explore taboos without backlash, shares the “lightning bolt” idea that sparked it all, her inspiration for the design and sound, what’s up next, and more!

Ten years ago, writer and director Jennifer Kent summoned The Babadook, a horror movie that currently sits at a near-perfect 98% on Rotten Tomatoes. It’s a Herculean feat to dream up an original nightmare like this one, but to have it so positively received is another triumph entirely. Not only has The Babadook, starring Essie Davis and Noah Wiseman, endured, but the fearsome entity has also taken on a life of its own, accidentally becoming a queer icon in the last decade and inspiring loads of impressive fan art.

In the movie, a single mother (Davis) at her wit’s end takes a moment to read a bedtime story to her son, Sam (Wiseman), but when they flip through the pages of this mysterious book, a menacing entity manifests in their home.

To celebrate the anniversary of her film, Kent headed to Fantastic Fest 2024 where she sat down with Collider’s Perri Nemiroff to take a look back at the last decade of a post-Babadook world. During their discussion, which you can watch in the video above or read below, Kent talks about the freedom to confront taboos in genre filmmaking, the original concept that started it all, and her reaction to the warmest reception to her chilling creation. She also talks about the inspiration behind the Babadook’s look and sound, shares her personal horror film recommendation, and reveals some tidbits about her next horror movie!

Horror Allows Filmmakers to Dabble in Taboos
“…and not be absolutely annihilated for doing so.”

PERRI NEMIROFF: I am so excited to be celebrating the anniversary of The Babadook with Jennifer Kent. It’s wild sitting here all these years later.

JENNIFER KENT: It’s crazy.

I wanted to start with a big broad question about genre storytelling, horror storytelling, especially because we’re at Fantastic Fest, where that is what we’re celebrating. What do you think it is about genre storytelling that lets us tap into and explore our difficult human truths maybe more effectively than any other genre?

KENT: I think when you put it in a drama context, usually the parameters are smaller, so narrower, and there are more taboos. Whereas, I think the beauty of horror and sci-fi and fantasy and all of those bolder genres is that there’s more wiggle room so that you can deal with a taboo like, in The Babadook, a woman wanting to murder her own child, and not be absolutely annihilated for doing so.

I love the thought of being able to process the grounded and the intimate things in life but via the extreme in horror. I feel like sometimes you need to be hit over the head with something big and bold to really be able to put it into focus versus sometimes having more subtle storytelling.

KENT: Totally. Because I did toss up, “What realm is this film going to sit in,” when I was first initially developing it. It feels too operatic, I think, for a small drama or a more realistic space.

In all honesty, over the years, the amount of times I’ve had some sort of internal struggle and viewed it as my Babadook and tried to process it or compartmentalize it that way is really something else.

KENT: [Laughs] A friend of mine came up to me after he and his partner had had a baby, and he said, “Oh, now I understand your film.” Not that he wanted to murder his child, but just the kind of sleeplessness and the confronting nature of it. So, yeah, it’s nice when people relate to it.

That’s also one of the coolest things about movies in general that I love. You can love a movie one day for one particular reason but then revisit it 10 years later, and depending on how you’ve grown as a person, you might still love it for the same reasons, but you’ll also find new things that you never realized existed all that time ago.

KENT: Yeah, or sometimes I’ve found a film that initially I actually don’t. That happened with, I’m ashamed to admit, [David] Lynch’s Mulholland Drive. I was so annoyed when I first saw it. I wanted something very linear and I was frustrated, and then I saw it again and fell asleep halfway through, woke up, and I thought, “Oh, maybe I’m starting to feel what this film is about.” And then each time I’ve seen it since, I mean, it’s a masterpiece. I changed and the film now means something very different to me.

My example that embarrasses me to say, but I feel like some people out there already know this, is I saw Karyn Kusama’s The Invitation when it premiered at South by. I was like, “This is just not working for me at all.” I think it was a late screening. I’m sure there were a variety of reasons why I was not in the mind frame to be ready to ingest a movie like that. Then I watched it again, and I’m like, “Oh my,” like, “What was I thinking?” Now I think it is one of the genre movies that I’ve probably rewatched and loved the most.

KENT: I’ve seen that several times, actually. It’s very disturbing and very true somehow. I love it.

I wanted that to continue, too. I wanted to see what happened in other houses that put lanterns out at the end.

KENT: Yeah! Frightening stuff.

The “Lightning Bolt” That Started It All
Image via Matt Nettheim/Causeway Films

One of my favorite things about preparing for this interview right now is we were sent press notes, and we were sent the press notes from 2014, so it was interesting reading all of that now. In those notes, there’s a mention that the idea for the Babadook didn’t come to you in a lightbulb form. Going back, do you remember what idea number one is, the thing that started this all, but then also if you had a breakstory moment, something you came up with along the way that made you think, “This is a full story for a movie now?”

KENT: I tend to want to write from an idea, one sort of abstract idea even, or a thematic idea. I was in the process of grieving, and so it wasn’t like, “Oh, I wanna make a film about grieving.” I actually wanted to make it about suppression because I was kind of fascinated and disturbed by the idea that someone would not go through this. What would happen to them if they didn’t go through a big loss? That’s, I guess, the lightning bolt that came to me. Then from there on in, things just grew and formed around that idea.

To build on that a little, during production or perhaps even in the edit, is there anything you discovered in your own story that you wrote that you didn’t even realize was there and now it’s in the final film?

KENT: I think that happens with every film, actually. I think that we think we’re fully cognizant of what the film is about, but if you have a deep idea, and you commit to it, it’s amazing to me when people actually watch the film and come to you and say, “Oh, I got this from it, I got that from it.” And I think, “I didn’t actually intend that, but it’s amazing that you found that because that thing you’re saying is true.”

One of my absolute favorite things about filmmaking is we always talk about how a movie is one thing when you’re writing it, it’s another on set, and then it’s another in the edit when you’re actually finishing it, but then I think there’s a whole other layer where it takes on a new life when you actually give it to moviegoers. So of all of those reactions, is there any particular one that redefined your own movie for you the most that you hold especially tight to?

KENT: Without giving too much away about this person, I had someone reach out to me who said that they lost their father when they were a kid, and their mom was a single mom of three boys. He was watching the film while he was working and sort of half-watching the film one night, and then he started to listen to what was going on and was really drawn in. And he said, “Thank you. Your film gave me more than 20 years of therapy.” Because it really spoke to him about his own loss. So, that’s very precious to me. That’s why I make films. It’s not for anything else other than to really reach someone. And there are other instances like that that have happened, that just make it all worthwhile.

That’s such a beautiful example. Now, to narrow that down to things , is there any particular piece of Babadook fan art — a tattoo, something someone gave you — that you cherish?

KENT: You can see a framed illustration there. Someone at the New York screening came up to me, this young person just sort of gifted me this and then said, “This is for you. I really love this film and I’ve done so much art around it.” I’m blown away by things like that because I feel someone is making art as a response to what you’ve given, and it’s a real thrill. It’s precious.

Related How on Earth Did the Babadook Become a Gay Icon? The B in LGBTQ stands for Babadook.. dook… dook.

That is such a special thing. I’m a little obsessive with Mondo posters, so one of the crown jewels in my apartment is a particular Mondo poster from The Babadook .

KENT: Yes! I also have some Mondo posters. I have one of The Exorcist. The one I love — it’s my favorite poster of The Babadook, actually — is the Mondo, the “We buy your kids” poster. The other one from them that I love is American Werewolf in London. I have those three at home in my office.

Those are all good. I have too many to count. We will be sitting here for hours if I name all my Mondo posters. One of my greatest recent memories — I’m allowed to say this because I’m allowed to say I was on the set — I saw Essie [Davis] on the set of the Alien TV show, and we just chit-chatted about The Babadook, and I showed her the poster and she loved it.

Designing the Babadook
Image via Umbrella Entertainment

I wanna go into the look of The Babadook because the other thing that the notes was reminding me about was that earlier on when you were first designing the look of the creature, the design didn’t feel quite right initially, and then you had brought Alex [Holmes] in. Can you explain what those early designs looked like and how things shifted when Alex became a direct participant in that?

KENT: It’s really just about style. Sometimes an artist can be brilliant, but then when they start to put together, in this case, it was Mr. Babadook, it didn’t feel right. It’s almost something that can’t be articulated. And when I saw Alex’s work, I had an inkling that he was the one. Then he just started to put these crazy illustrations together, and I thought, “This is the guy.” So then we got him out quite a while before pre-production so that we could work on the book first before we worked on anything else.

What would you say is the biggest difference between how you first pictured the Babadook creature looking when you first put pen to paper and what he now looks like in not only the finished film but all that fan art everyone’s creating?

KENT: There are just slight variations to the left and right of center. I don’t know. I mean, I’m just so happy with the way it’s worked out. I like the hokiness of it. It’s not new knowledge to anyone that I was inspired by Lon Chaney’s makeup in London After Midnight, that lost film. But yeah, Mr. Babadook has his own spin on that look.

Image via MGM

I’m obsessed with the look. I am also obsessed with the sound of the Babadook. Did you go through any trial and error when finding the right voice for the character?

KENT: Yes, because we had to kind of work out what was scary. It could have sounded stupid. We had to kind of test different Babadook-dook-dooks. Then when we hit on a certain way of doing it, it made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, and I thought, “That’s it.”

Great success in that respect. My whole family are horror-lovers. They all love The Babadook , and we’ll just walk around and do the creepy voice just to annoy each other and make our hairs stand.

KENT: [Laughs] Apparently, Danielle [Freiberg] from IFC was saying that when they first started promoting this, she would ring journalists and just play the Babadook-dook-dook into the phone and then hang up, which was before they knew what was going on.

I feel like now I’m gonna wind up doing that later today and disturbing someone in my life.

This ‘Babadook’ Performance Still Blows the Director Away
Image via Umbrella Entertainment 

To flip around the idea of things being disturbing, we have been asking this question to every filmmaker at Fantastic Fest this year because of something that came up in our first interview here. Our first interview was for The Rule of Jenny Pen , the John Lithgow and Geoffrey Rush movie, and James [Ashcroft], the director, was saying one of the coolest things was seeing these acting icons take such joy and pride in their work. Looking back on the making of The Babadook , what would you say was the single moment you experienced the most joy on that set?

KENT: I think watching Essie and Noah [Wiseman] together and seeing that boy who only had five or six years on this earth with so much emotional intelligence and so much commitment. He would just blow me away. Watching it, I did a director’s commentary with Mike Flanagan a couple of days ago, and what a special experience that was for many reasons, but also to see Noah up on the screen just being so honest and present in his performance. It’s a knockout.

I love that example. I know you have said you have no interest in making a sequel to this movie, but looking back, I have to imagine when it came out and was so successful, there was pressure to do it. Over the course of the years, have you come anywhere close to even considering or has it always been a firm no since the moment this came out?

KENT: It’s just a firm no. I don’t have any problem with sequels at all, I just think that with this, it would somehow just not be necessary. And I think if a film is not necessary, why spend the money making it?

I very much understand that. Here’s one, not a sequel idea but a spin that I’ve had on my mind since I first saw it — I’m just curious, the answer to this could be no, but Mr. Babadook is a manifestation, basically, of all of the feelings that she’s suppressing in this particular story. Do you imagine that another person in this reality has the same thing but with a different-looking creature, or do they all look like Mr. Babadook?

KENT: I don’t know because I think that you can’t have Mr. Babadook without Amelia or Sam, so I don’t know what he would look like.

It wouldn’t be Mr. Babadook. Somebody else’s suppressed emotions would be something else.

KENT: And it’s not just suppressed emotions. It’s so much else. It’s like this trio of necessary items. I don’t think you could remove one and take one out and put it somewhere else.

I do appreciate sequels, but my brain operates more so in the anthology format, and the thought of seeing how this story might differ from other people experiencing other difficulties in life fascinates me.

KENT: [Laughs] It won’t be coming from me, but I appreciate you actually thinking that it could go on beyond this.

I think about it quite often.

‘The Babadook’ Director Is Helming a Fantasy Horror Next
Image via Adam Martingnetti

Speaking of what could come next from you, I did hear that you have another movie cooking. Is there anything you can tease about that?

KENT: I have about six or seven, but one that’s looking very real.

Can you tease what genre falls into it?

KENT: It’s fantasy horror.

I will take that.

KENT: There’s a certain poetry to it. It’s an adaptation of a book. So, I really want to be able to tell you what it is. I so want to, but it’s probably a couple of weeks off. I’ll let you know!

I’m gonna send all the good vibes your way, and the moment you are able to announce, I will probably be seeking out that book and reading it immediately.

Check Out These Horror Recs From ‘The Babadook’ Director
Image via Netflix

Just in general, looking at the future of horror filmmaking, I am wondering, is there a recent horror movie you’ve seen that gives you hope for the future of genre storytelling in this industry?

KENT: I was asked that, and the one film I guess that keeps on sticking in my mind is His House.

Oh, I love His House !

KENT: And the reason I mention it is because of the dreaded pandemic. I believe it came out around the beginning of that, and then I think it just got swamped in the ocean of Netflix. So, if you haven’t seen it, go and watch it because it’s very scary and it’s beautiful and sad and all the things I love in a horror.

That was at Sundance the year you were there with The Nightingale or were those different years?

KENT: No, I think it must have been later, probably a year or two later.

I think that makes sense because I feel like I did my His House interview in a studio, and we were like old-school.

KENT: Yeah, we were huddled around a fire.

I had a little handycam.

KENT: I can remember seeing snow outside when we were talking.

Speaking of movies that give me great hope, I think of Aisling [Franciosi] all the time, and Stopmotion is phenomenal. She’s so good in it. The idea of getting in an artist’s head while using the stop-motion animation format to tell a story that way is next-level stuff.

KENT: She’s great in everything she does. That’s a one-woman show, that film.

She’s also great in Speak No Evil , which is in theaters now!

KENT: I’ve seen the original, which is, you know… But I’m curious to see the English version.

It’s good. It’s exciting. I can get very sensitive about remakes, especially in recent films. I think that is a good example of having done it and done it well and with purpose, which I appreciate.

KENT: Oh, that’s really interesting.

We have said we have said Speak No Evil , His House … His House was one of my favorites of Sundance that year and it was in my top 10. It is still streaming on Netflix. Please check that out in between your re-watches of The Babadook , which I feel like I should only speak for myself, but I know I could speak for many people out — I adore your movie. It grows every single time I watch it. And again, it is the perfect example of horror storytelling that helps me find peace in my own very real day-to-day, and that’s quite the accomplishment with filmmaking. Thank you for revisiting with us.

KENT: Thank you! Well, it’s amazing to have a film remembered after 10 years.

Very special. Congratulations. Thanks for talking with us. To everybody out there, go rewatch The Babadook more than you already have. Also, stay tuned for more conversations from Fantastic Fest for you soon!

The Babadook is available to stream on Netflix now.

The Babadook A single mother and her child fall into a deep well of paranoia when an eerie children’s book titled “Mister Babadook” manifests in their home.Director Jennifer Kent Cast Essie Davis , Noah Wiseman , Hayley McElhinney , Daniel Henshall , Barbara West , Ben Winspear , Cathy Adamek , Craig Behenna , Hachi , Tim Purcell , Chloe Hurn , Jacquy Phillips , Bridget Walters , Adam Morgan , Pippa Wanganeen , Peta Shannon , Michelle Nightingale , Tony Mack , Carmel Johnson , Michael Gilmour , Craig McArdle , Terence Crawford , Tiffany Lyndall-Knight , Lucy Hong , Sophie Riggs , John Maurice , Stephen Sheehan , Alicia Zorkovic , Lotte Crawford , Chris Roberts , Annie Batten Runtime 94 Minutes Expand

Watch on Netflix