[Editor’s note: This interview was recorded prior to the SAG strike.]What’s better than one Ken? A Ken that stands out from a pack of Kens because he can do backflips. This fun fact is actually a pretty important plot point in Greta Gerwig’s Barbie “because it makes all the Kens really, really jealous,” according to Simu Liu (Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings) during his interview with Collider’s Perri Nemiroff.

In Barbie, Barbie Land is full of bright, bubbly characters like Barbie played by Oscar nominee Margot Robbie and her Barbie friends including President Barbie (Issa Rae), Weird Barbie (Kate McKinnon), and many more. There’s also a bunch of Kens including Ryan Gosling’s Ken and Liu’s (better?) Ken. In a perfectly pink plastic world, every day is the best day ever until a hint of existentialism stirs in Robbie’s Barbie setting her off on a journey of self-discovery.

With Barbie now playing in theaters nationwide and soaring at the box office, hear all about the Ken rivalry, find out what Barbie Land might look like if Liu’s Ken took over, get the scoop on which Ken actor (Liu, Gosling, Kingsley Ben-Adir, Ncuti Gatwa, Scott Evans) was the best dancer, and loads more straight from Liu himself in the video interview at the top of this article or in transcript form below.

PERRI NEMIROFF: What is your Ken’s greatest asset at the very beginning of the movie? But I also want to know what you think his greatest weakness is, the thing he needs to overcome to become a better Ken.

SIMU LIU: Oh, that’s such a good question! Here’s the thing, I think my Ken’s greatest asset at the beginning of the movie is that he can backflip. That’s right. I said it. It’s a spoiler. He can backflip! He backflips really well, actually, and it becomes, surprisingly, a big plot point that he can backflip because it makes Ryan’s Ken really, really jealous. It just irks him that there’s something that this Ken can do that his Ken can’t. As Ken, I love that. Ken loves that.

I would say that gives you a clue into Ken’s greatest weakness. Not just mine, but I think everyone’s is that there’s no sense of community among the Kens. There’s a lot of in-fighting, a lot of tearing each other down. When you’re starved for that kind of sense of Kendom, this brotherhood of Kens, I think it can lead you to be pretty miserable and really competitive for no reason. And then over the course of the movie I would say, with a couple of wrong turns along the way, a couple of misguided things happen, but I think the Kens ultimately end up in a very good place where they’re able to, hopefully, coexist harmoniously with the Barbies.

I like the sound of that for the future, for the potential sequel.

LIU: We love world peace at the end of the day.

Of course! [Laughs]

Image via Warner Bros.

Let’s say it was your Ken who had gone to the real world, what might Barbie Land have turned into? Would it have been the same as Ryan’s Ken and what he creates or would your Ken have created a different song, different movie, different vibe other than cowboys and horses?

LIU: That’s a really interesting question. I think my Ken would have some interesting design ideas for a Barbie Dreamhouse that maybe Ryan’s Ken would not have. I find the horse symbolism very interesting – a little questionable. I’m not really sure where the fixation on horses comes from. I would probably pick a different animal, like a wolf. I would say more wolf. A lot of wolf. Nunchuks maybe? I’m kind of feeling like, who doesn’t love nunchuks?

I think my Ken would probably stumble into Korea Town, would probably discover boba for the first time or Korean barbecue, and would just become really obsessed with that. So there would be a lot of grilling, there would be a lot of barbecues, a lot of backyard barbecues. What else? What else would my Ken bring back from the real world? Breakdancing! All Kens can dance, but I think if my Ken were to run into a breakdancer in the real world I think that would just blow his mind and he would be like, “I need to bring this back. It’s the greatest thing ever!” It’s exactly how I felt when I first saw breakdancing for the first time.

As long as we get back to world peace at the end, this sounds like a fun Barbie Land/Kendom to come visit for a little bit!

LIU: Absolutely. Breakdancing naturally, I think, would segue quite nicely into world peace.

Image via Warner Bros

You just brought up that all Kens can dance, but I want to know, can all actors who are playing Kens dance? Who was the best dancer, and then who needed a little work to get the choreography right?

LIU: Oh, man. Look, I can’t name any names! I can’t name any names, alright? All I want to say is that there’s one Ken in the movie who can backflip, and only one Ken in the movie who can backflip. This is a very important point in the story of the Kens because it makes all the Kens really, really jealous.

Okay, so you were at the top of the list. I’d believe that. [Laughs]

LIU: I didn’t say that! [Laughs] It was so fun doing dance practice with all the Kens. Which, by the way, is probably one of [my] favorite sentences I’ve ever said out loud. Everyone was so great. Oh my god, Scott [Evans] to Ncuti [Gatwa], Ryan of course. Ryan, I know you’ve seen the YouTube videos, used to be quite a dancer and still is, I’m happy to report. And Kinglsey [Ben-Adir], of course, as well. It was just so much fun with those guys, and we had incredible choreographers in Lisa Welham, Jen White. They were just the best and made it easy for us to pick it up.

Image via Warner Bros. 

I have one more name I want to drop to sing her praises a little, Greta Gerwig. What is something unique about Greta as an actor’s director that you really appreciated here, something that made you feel like you could even exceed your own expectations for your work in this film?

LIU: That’s a really, really great way to put it. I think Greta comes from such a love of cinema, such a love of theater, old-school theater. She really placed a lot of importance on the rehearsal process and that’s important. We don’t always get that in the film world. Getting to put scenes on their feet before we saw any of the sets, but just kind of actor-to-actor getting to play, getting to sense each other’s energy, getting a sense of where we were at, and I thought that was so crucial. It was in one of my first rehearsals with Ryan that I was so blown away by his tenacity, by his talent. It was a very important moment for me because I was like, “Oh, thank goodness I didn’t witness this for the first time as the cameras were about to roll because I’ve gotta really up my game.” He was incredible. It taught me so much. That, among many other things, I think is why Greta is just such an amazing director and the perfect director for this movie.

Do not forget, you can backflip. You never have to feel the pressure to up your game.

LIU: That’s true! That’s true. Yes.