The Big Picture

Collider’s Perri Nemiroff speaks with Tim Burton during a
Beetlejuice Beetlejuice
roundtable interview.
The sequel stars Jenna Ortega, Winona Ryder, and Michael Keaton and combines practical effects, improv, and creative energy to recapture the spirit of the original
Beetlejuice
.
In this interview, Burton discusses why he could finally return to this whimsical world, reuniting with the cast, the possibility of more sequels, working with Ortega again, and tons more!

Nearly 40 years since Michael Keaton took on possibly his most iconic role to date, filmmaker Tim Burton has summoned up some old friends for a “[reboot], rehab, restructure, whatever” with Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. No matter how stoked we were as fans, it seems no one was more surprised to revisit this character than the director himself, who, in recent years, found himself wondering if he should take a step back from moviemaking. Sequels and franchises are Hollywood’s bread and butter, but Burton has always been sort of “strange and unusual.” So, why return to the Deetz family and Beetlejuice now?

With Beetlejuice Beetlejuice hitting theaters soon, Collider’s Perri Nemiroff got the opportunity to see an early screening and attend a roundtable interview with Burton to discuss the sequel. During the conversation, he talks about reuniting with the original film’s stars, Winona Ryder, Catherine O’Hara, and Keaton, as well as the contribution the new faces brought to the movie, like Willem Dafoe, Monica Bellucci, Justin Theroux, and “our entrance to this world” and “anchor,” Jenna Ortega.

Speaking of Ortega, Burton digs into why he’s apprehensive about revisiting past work, what led to Netflix’s hit series Wednesday, and how important nailing the right vibe and spirit of this movie was to him. Burton explains why he couldn’t make a Beetlejuice sequel until now, working with practical effects over “bells and whistles,” the movie’s music, why Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis aren’t in the sequel, and if we’ll ever see continuations of other Burton movies. You can read the full interview in the transcript below for all of this and tons more!

Tim Burton Recaptures the Spirit of the Original ‘Beetlejuice’

The comedy was so relevant and so on par with today. Can you talk to me about how some of that dialogue came out?

TIM BURTON: It was a bit like the first movie. I tried to treat this movie like the spirit of the first movie where we had a script, but there was a lot of improv that went on. I’m very lucky to work with people like Michael [Keaton] and Catherine [O’Hara] who are very good at improv. We just tried to do it in the spirit of that. Shoot quickly, and all the actors contributed, Justin [Theroux] and Will [Dafoe], everybody contributed to their character. They really took it from the page and made it something else. That was the whole vibe of the movie. We wanted to do it with practical effects, sets, quickly, with all this great improv. That gave it an energy, which is part of what the vibe of the film is for me, reenergizing me to why I like making movies — just working with creative people back and forth and just making stuff up on the set. You can’t really do that much in a lot of movies, or you don’t want to, but with this property, it’s part of the spirit of it.

Watching the movie, I thought Michael Keaton never skipped a decade’s worth of scariest shit.

BURTON: We didn’t rehearse, we didn’t do anything. So he comes on, and it was truly like demon possession. It felt like a time warp. You’re right; it was unnerving. It was great, it was exciting, but it was really also disturbing. [Laughs]

Image via Warner Bros.

Throughout the process, what were the thoughts behind seeing this Michael Keaton come to life again?

BURTON: It was great. That’s what gave the film its energy. We make up stuff every day, which is kind of hard to do when you’re dealing with all live effects, but we did it. I worked with these effects people who, in the spirit of the movie, would make these things very quickly. But Michael and I talked about this from the very beginning, that that was very important to the spirit, especially with all the technology to do all this stuff and whatever. We just wanted to kind of not think about “sequel” or [franchise], anything, just go and just make the movie. So, like I said, that energy of what he brought back to it was amazing and crucial.

Piggybacking on that, it almost felt like everybody just jumped in, no questions asked. It was, like, not work at all. But I have to ask, what influenced you to have “Macarthur Park” for that huge set piece?

BURTON: I have my own bizarre playlist. Everybody has a playlist, right? That was one on mine. It wasn’t in the script or anything, it’s just something that I felt, I don’t know, just fit the spirit of it. It was a song I like, it was emotional, it was operatic, and it’s sort of bizarrely romantic and grand. It just felt like, given the character of him and his sort of multitalented, multilingual, whatever kind of thing that Beetlejuice has… [Laughs] But that was the beautiful thing — we didn’t really worry about the script of the studio or anybody, we just went and did it, which is something, like I said, that reenergized the fact of why you like making movies. It’s the unknown. It’s not something that’s set in stone. We think about it, but then we just don’t worry about it. We just do it. It was quite liberating.

I think you achieved something that few people do, which is create a sequel that’s as good if not better than the first, so thank you. At what point during shooting this movie did you realize you had a great sequel on your hands?

BURTON: I don’t think that way. All I know about it — and I don’t feel this way about a lot of films — is that I feel very passionate. I feel very emotional about it and stuff. But I never know. Even after it comes out, I don’t know. It’s how these things go. So, all I know is how I feel about it. But I felt that way from the beginning, the first day of shooting, seeing Catherine and Winona [Ryder]. I almost didn’t care how it turned out, you know what I mean? I just felt very strongly and personal about it.

Tim Burton Believes a ‘Beetlejuice’ Sequel Was Impossible Before
“Truly, it couldn’t have happened until now.”
Image via Warner Bros.

What can you say about the development process and how long this was really in the works, and what kind of speed bumps you hit?

BURTON: It’s been asked from the very beginning, but nothing clicked. Truly, it couldn’t have happened until now. It was only until fairly recently, with all this talk, that I just put all the noise away and I just go, “Okay, I love the Lydia character.” That was the character that I connected with, like, as a teenager. So I go, “What happened to this person 35 years later? What weird thing?” You go from cool teenager to some fucked up adult. [Laughs] What relationships do you have? Do you have kids? What’s your relationship with that? It’s not something I could have done back then; it’s only something you could do once you experience those things yourself. So for me, this became a very personal movie, like a kind of weird family movie about a weird family. That became the emotional hook, the three generations of mother, daughter, granddaughter, life, death — just basic normal things that we all experience. Especially if you’re lucky enough to get older, you feel those things. So, that’s where it really started, and it really could only have happened for me after all this time.

Image via Warner Bros.

This feels like such a seamless continuation of the original in large part because of the visual style and, of course, the practical effects. What can you say about how much you wanted to mirror your approach to the original, especially when you have such new bells and whistles?

BURTON: Well, I’ve worked with all the bells and whistles, but Michael and I talked about it, and I said, “Listen, I’m only gonna make this movie in the spirit of the first one.” But I didn’t even watch the first one because I didn’t really understand why it was a success or not in the beginning with. I didn’t feel like it was gonna help me, so I truly didn’t watch it, but I remember the feeling of it. It’s hard to go back and recreate feelings, especially in this industry with all the bells and everything you’re talking about. So, go back to simple — shoot it quickly, and all the actors contribute. The script was there, it was a good script, but everybody, I mean all the actors, contributed. Then even with the effects guys, I had a guy I’ve worked with before, Neal [Scanlan]. I said, “In the same spirit,” because we’re making stuff up all on the set all the time, and he was equally as important as the actors in terms of making puppets quickly and, like, “Okay, get that guy over there, pull the string on the tail, blah, blah, blah,” and all that kind of stuff so that we can all kind of keep doing it in that same spirit. So, it was all set up.

Also, and I didn’t realize this until the very end, we ended up actually shooting it in the same amount of time as the first one. I wasn’t planning that particularly, but it sort of ended up that way, which, like I said, was part of the DNA of the film. Whatever it was, let’s think about it, let’s talk about it, let’s question it, but not too much,

Well, the first one’s really good. You should check it out.

BURTON: [Laughs] I did see it after, but like I said, when I did it, it was important to me not to think about “sequel,” “franchise,” all these words. When I first started, none of those words were around — franchise, reboots, rehab, restructure, whatever.

Since you’re able to revisit, repurpose…

BURTON: Regurgitate.

Don’t Hold Your Breath for More Tim Burton Sequels

Is there another one of your movies or creations that you are excited to potentially add to?

BURTON: No. In fact, I think I would say the opposite, in a funny way, because I’ve done that a little bit. I feel if I do something next, I don’t know what I would do, but I wanna do something where… I almost got out of making movies after my last one because I just didn’t feel the whole studio thing. So, I went off and did a TV thing — Wednesday in Romania — just to kind of re-cleanse, so to speak, or re-energize. I had no burning desire to make the sequel or anything, I just wanted to make this movie. So, I think I’ve recalibrated the way I’m gonna approach things in the future.

I was reading a lot about how the live effects and the puppets allow for spontaneity on set. With that in mind, what scene changed the most from script to screen?

BURTON: It wasn’t anything really big. I think it was more just subtle things, and that’s the beauty of it. Just looking at somebody here or there, you know what I mean? Or not looking at somebody. You didn’t have to describe to the actors, “Well, this is gonna happen, this is gonna look like that, I’m fighting this…” Having all that stuff there and having sets and having everybody there, it just ups the energy in terms of the set, and therefore what you’re making. Again, you get rid of all the white noise of business and studio, anything, and you just get right into it. That, again, just reenergized me.

The decades have made Beetlejuice into a character who’s sort of a mascot — he’s in theme parks, he’s in toys, and T-shirts. Was there ever a temptation from you or anybody else to be like, “Maybe we should make him more heroic instead of this monster?”

BURTON: My whole career, there have always been people, like, “This is too dark,” and I never saw my films as dark. I’ve much darker films than my films. I don’t really know what they’re talking about, you know what I mean? But I think Michael and I both love the fact that he was politically incorrect then and he’s politically incorrect now. [Laughs] I’m just laughing because somebody asked him the other day, “Michael, how does Beetlejuice’s character evolve?” And we just started laughing because he doesn’t evolve — that’s the whole point!

Would there be any desire on your part — I’m sure there is for the studio’s part — to maybe make one more after this one?

BURTON: Yeah, they talk whatever, but if it follows the model now, I’d be making that when I’d be over 100. It’s possible, but I don’t know. [Laughs] With medical science these days, I don’t know. No, I mean, like I said, for me, I wasn’t really personally interested… If they said it to me, I would run in the other direction. This was one that caught my thing. Now, would something else…? I don’t know. Not right now because I’m still finishing this one, basically.

Beetlejuice has had a lot of appeal to kids; I know I grew up watching it all the time. It’s kind of seen as a gateway horror movie for a lot of kids. When you’re making this one, because sometimes you get a little more horror here, like with the baby, is it a balancing act?

BURTON: Well, yes and no. Like I said, my whole career, people go, “Oh, this is too scary. [Nightmare Before Christmas], kids can’t watch that…” I know how I always felt, and I grew up, myself, watching monster movies. I always believe everybody, adults and kids, are different. Some kids can watch this stuff, some kids can’t. You could, I could, others can’t, my daughter can’t. The point is, I never felt like I knew exactly, I just know myself, and I know how I felt as a child and all that sort of thing. I always feel parents get more worried about their kids, and kids can handle more than the parents think they can handle. That’s always been my approach.

Jenna Ortega Is the Anchor of ‘Beetlejuice Beetlejuice’
“She’s our entrance into this world.”
Image via Warner Bros.

Jenna Ortega is a great addition to the film. She once said in an interview that she’s always had dark humor, and her humor is so dark that it surprised you, even.

BURTON: [Laughs] Well, that’s why she was Wednesday because she is Wednesday. That’s why there was no question about that at all. She’s really integral to this because she’s our entrance into this world. She’s kind of the anchor of the film. It’s actually really a story about her if you really wanna boil it down — her and her mother. She is a really beautiful addition. I had the beauty of Michael and Catherine and Winona, but then I have the beauty of Jenna and the other cast members, Willem, Monica [Bellucci], and Justin, who really became part of a weird family.

Revisiting the legacy of Beetlejuice 36 years later was a gift for us, and I hope it was for you too.

BURTON: Definitely, for me. It could be a nightmare for some. [Laughs]

Looking back at wrapping that first movie, were there unused ideas or regrets that you were haunted by for 36 years that you were finally able to address here?

BURTON: No, no, no, it was fun. I don’t think there was anything that I felt like, “Oh, we didn’t do this, we didn’t do that.” Maybe there were things, but they left me. I felt satisfied from this. There were lots of dead people that I thought of that we didn’t use for this because they might have been a little too politically incorrect. But we’ll see next time. [Laughs]

Now that you’ve worked with Michael Keaton on two sets of sequels, which one was more fun to watch him in?

BURTON: Oh, this one. I mean, obviously. On Batman, I think he was struggling because it took forever and you’re stuck in this kind of thing. I’m not sure, but I’m sure that he would say the same, that this is definitely much more liberating. Absolutely.

I’ve got a question about you explaining that Jenna is the anchor of this movie as Astrid. What was it like introducing Beetlejuice , which was decades old, to a brand-new audience?

BURTON: It’s interesting. I don’t know yet because it’s not out, so I don’t really know. It’s funny because the only example I have is my own daughter, who never saw the original Beetlejuice, and she’s 16. My fault is that I never showed my kids… They don’t know what I do! They think I work in an office somewhere. I don’t know. But I was sort of interested in somebody who hadn’t seen the original, and if they’d understand it or get it or get the vibe of it. I think they got it. And again, because Jenna is sort of the voice of reason, it’s like, “What the fuck is all this shit?” Kids do, you know? They call their parents into question, which is great. So, I don’t know yet, specifically, how that will work.

I didn’t want to make it feel like it’s a real “sequel” sequel where you have to follow… You don’t have Adam [Alec Baldwin] and Barbara [Geena Davis], you know what I mean? It wasn’t about making it a sequel where you have to tick all these boxes. Some boxes are ticked and some aren’t. It was just about making this sort of a standalone, based on characters and situations. But hopefully you can see it without having to really know the first movie.

Image via Warner Bros.

I was reading a bit about the sketches you did for the movie, and it mentioned that some of the sketches might have been too grown-up for the film. Can you tease any of those?

BURTON: [Laughs] No, because I might use these ideas for something else. We’ll see what happens.

Did you base Willem Dafoe’s actor on any real-life actors?

BURTON: No! I know what you’re thinking, but no. It was a little bit of Jack Lord in Hawaii Five-O, and a mixture of things. It’s more the idea because I’ve worked with enough actors. [Laughs]

I was curious, your world is quite fun and bombastic. Do you find the real world boring?

BURTON: [Laughs] Well, no. I would not say boring. I find things people call “normal,” I don’t know that word means. When somebody says it, I feel a bit queasy. I don’t know what they actually mean by “normal.” But, no. I mean, I did grow up being terrified of things like school, my parents, things that are not mundane but just real-life stuff. It’s the hardest stuff.

Why Aren’t Adam and Barbara in ‘Beetlejuice 2’?
Image via Warner Bros.

You mentioned the Maitlands, and they’re not in the film obviously. Were you ever close to including them, even as cameos?

BURTON: Well, no, just because they’re ghosts. I loved working with those guys. I loved the first one, I love all the cast, but I didn’t think about it because I wasn’t out to make a sequel, per se. So, I didn’t really wanna just throw stuff in just to throw it in, you know? Even in respect. For me, just given the scenario of them being ghosts and all that sort of thing, it just felt like… it’s just the way we did it.

I’ve had the theme song in my head since I saw the opening credits yesterday. Do you use music on set to set the tone at all?

BURTON: Well, in some cases. Not the score. We don’t use the score, but yes, the other musical elements.

There’s a quick line about Lydia’s mom being alive still. Is that a character that you guys ever thought about?

BURTON: [Laughs] We’ll see.

Can we talk a little more about that ending? Because I think I have an idea of what’s going on…

BURTON: Then tell me because I have no idea.

Astrid looks like she’s seeing her boyfriend again, and then it’s like, “Oh, what could happen if they got Beetlejuice…?”

BURTON: No, for me, there were other endings written and stuff, but I just had this idea, because I love Brian de Palma, and it’s kind of a Brian de Palma ending where it’s real, but it’s not real. Because the emotion was beautiful, like Lydia talking about life and connecting with real people. So, I just felt like it was in the spirit of the movie to kind of mix it up a little bit.

If there is a third movie, would it have to be called Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice ?

BURTON: I know! [Laughs]

Speaking of Lydia’s boyfriend, at its core, this movie is very much about trauma and toxic relationships. How do you approach heavy topics like that with a sense of humor and levity?

BURTON: Well, that was a beautiful thing. Michael and I talked about this — there’s a lot of commentary, but not too serious. I don’t preach about everything, but there were a lot of personal elements for me about that. Again, as we talked about earlier, only time can show you in your own experience of life. I couldn’t have made this back in 1989 because I didn’t know. Now I feel things after 30 years of coming through a bunch of good and bad ups and downs that you can only know when… It’s like when I made Big Fish. I couldn’t have made that film before my father died. I can only make that having those feelings that surprised me. It’s the same with this.

It was mentioned that we can’t stop humming the theme. It is one of the all-time great movie themes. Do you remember the first time you heard that?

BURTON: Oh, yeah, it was incredible because it was new. It was back in the day when you still would record to a big screen. You’d screen the film and the orchestra would be down there playing. You’d see a full orchestra playing. Those early days were quite exciting that way, you know, a full orchestra playing to the film up on the screen. Very exciting. So to hear that, to see that, that’s a time that I kind of miss, that very special, “Roll the film, play the music.”

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice rises again on September 6, exclusively in theaters. Click the link below for showtimes:

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