The Big Picture

Collider’s Perri Nemiroff sits down with the team behind Ponyboi at the 2024 Sundance Film Festival. River Gallo, Dylan O’Brien, Victoria Pedretti, Indya Moore and director Esteban Arango discuss making their “bombastic, edgy, and campy roller-coaster ride of a film.” The story unfolds during Valentine’s Day in New Jersey when a young intersex sex worker must run from the mob after a drug deal goes sideways.

One of the greatest things about the Sundance Film Festival is that it can serve as a launchpad for emerging talent — artists and voices bound to rock this industry and change it for the better in the process. River Gallo is one of those soaring stars in cinema.

Gallo’s acclaimed short film, Ponyboi, is now a feature making waves at the festival. Gallo wrote, produced and stars in the movie as the title character, Ponyboi, an intersex sex worker who gets swept up in a drug deal gone wrong. In an effort to steer clear of the mob and his abusive pimp, played by Dylan O’Brien, Ponyboi opts to make a break for it, a decision that demands a harrowing journey through the underbelly of New Jersey on Valentine’s Day.

Gallo, O’Brien, Victoria Pedretti, Indya Moore and director Esteban Arango all visited the Collider interview studio in Park City brought to you by Film.io to discuss their experience making the movie. Check out the video at the top of this article to learn about the process of taking the story from short to feature, and to find out why O’Brien, Pedretti, Moore and Arango are firm believers that Gallo “is light” that could and should continue to be a strong force in filmmaking. You can also read the full conversation in transcript form below.

Ponyboi Unfolding over the course of Valentine’s Day in New Jersey, a young intersex sex worker must run from the mob after a drug deal goes sideways, forcing him to confront his past. Release Date January 20, 2024 Director Esteban Arango Runtime 103 minutes Main Genre Drama Writers River Gallo

PERRI NEMIROFF: River, I’m giving you the hardest question of the bunch today. A lot of our viewers will first learn about Ponyboi through Sundance, so can you give us a brief description of your movie?

RIVER GALLO: It all unfolds on a cold Valentine’s Day in New Jersey, and Ponyboi is an intersex sex worker who has a drug deal that goes wrong and needs to escape from the mob on a chilling 24 hours in New Jersey.

Image via Sundance

You came to play today. Spot on! I think that means you’ll be ready for my complicated two-part question about taking this from short to feature. Can you tell me one thing that was really difficult about getting the green light on the feature version, but then also something about the short film and its reception that made getting the green light here easier?

GALLO: I think the hardest part about getting the green light from the short was that the pandemic happened. It was really a struggle, honestly, because I think in the indie filmmaking landscape people were really more averse to taking risks, and the film is bold, it’s unapologetic, and at the helm of it was me, a discovery talent. I think a lot of people passed on what they enjoyed, a well crafted script, but because I was in the middle of it, they didn’t want to take that risk because of the state of the economy and the pandemic and all that stuff. So that was really hard because it was like, I knew that I had gold on my hands and I think other people also recognized it as well, but, you know, it’s just timing.

But I think what made it easier was that the short was so beloved by so many people. I still get people that then I’m like, “You’ve seen the short? Why?” They’re like, “Because it’s good and I saw it!” It’s a stand-alone film in its own right, especially for what it did for culture. It’s weird, to be honest, about a short film having some kind of cultural impact, but it really had a life of its own that when our producers Mark [Ankner] and Trevor [Wall] became involved, they loved the short so much, and so when they saw the feature script, they were just fully on board.

‘Ponyboi’ Director Esteban Arango Wondered, “Am I the Right Person for This Task?”
Image via Photagonist at the Collider Media Studio

You were a co-director on the short. Here, you hand the directing reins over to Esteban. What was it about him that gave you the confidence that “this is someone I can hand my baby to,” in a sense?

GALLO: Esteban is just the sweetest human being. He was like our sweet dad. He saw me and understood me on multiple levels. Not just as an artist, but as a human. We spent some time in New Jersey before we went into production just getting to know each other, and I was like, this guy not only has a technical, stylistic and visual mastery over the craft, he also had the ability to have deep compassion for not only the cast but every crew member. Everyone just loves him, and I think that love, when it starts from the top, it just permeates all throughout. I just knew from the way he was able to handle and resonate so much with different aspects of the story that he was the right person.

Esteban, for you now, when you jump into a project like this, what convinces you that you have the skill set to do River’s vision justice? But also, what separates you from other directors? What did you think you could bring to this film as a director that maybe some others out there couldn’t?

ESTEBAN ARANGO: I read the script and it was phenomenal. It was like, I read it in one go. So at the story level, it was always there, but I did take a minute to consider, “Am I the right person for this task?” Because I’m not queer, I’m not intersex, but I am an immigrant, and that is the lens that I wanted to use to tell this story. As a first generation immigrant, you kind of come to this country, or wherever else that you’re moving, with a set of inherited values, belief systems, religion, and at some point you have to reckon with that. Does it make sense for you to continue that, or do you adopt a new identity, a new set of beliefs? And that, to me, felt like a universal story that hit very close to home. That’s when I was like, “I’ll do everything to make this a badass movie.”

And then, because the story takes place so much inside of Ponyboi’s head, I love that in movies. Movies that make us dream, that we can really flex with all the cinematic language using music and just different cinematic styles to create a full, colorful world. It’s a world on its own, so I couldn’t say no.

Image via Photagonist at the Collider Media Studio

Can you give us a specific example of a technique you use to make Ponyboi’s internal world feel accessible to the audience?

ARANGO: I feel like the specificity of the sequences where Ponyboi remembers, even though they’re traumatic moments with family, they feel specific in the language, in the culture, in the iconography that we show. The visual language that we use is so different in contrast with the rest of the movie, so it pulls you in, makes you pay attention. It feels playful, too. It doesn’t revel in tragedy. It wants you to connect with the character and not feel pity, but empathy, you know?

Very successful in that respect.

Indya Moore Almost Quit Acting, River Gallo Reignited Her Love for Filmmaking
Image via Photagonist at the Collider Media Studio

This is my favorite type of question to ask. I want all of you to talk about River because this is your first time leading a feature film, your first time writing a feature film, your first time producing a feature film. If you want more of those opportunities, I have a very good feeling they’re gonna be out there for you. Can you each name something about River as a scene partner, collaborator, and leader on set that you’re excited for more artists to get to experience when they work with them in the future?

INDYA MOORE: I got something I wanna say.

GALLO: Say it, honey.

ARANGO: Say it loud.

MOORE: If you want a masterclass in the lesson of, “if you want something done, you gotta do it yourself,” look no further than River Gallo. I watched River, not from the very beginning, but maybe toward the end of the beginning of the journey. [Laughs] I’ve watched River from the end of the beginning on actually literally take something that they wanted to do, they wanted to create, they wanted to become, and that they wanted to see, and they made it happen. I’ve been talking about the things that I want to make with so much passion for six years, and the same time that I heard that River wanted to do something was the same time that I heard it was getting done, and that is incredibly inspiring to me.

I think it’s really important for people to be able to recognize when somebody has power before they have power in the ways that we’re used to associating power in this industry. For example, you know, “You got to be one of [those] on the top. You got to have this, this, this and that.” And River literally brought everything together and told an incredibly powerful story/dream/real-life experience that we can all relate to, or that many people can relate to who aren’t intersex, and they told it from the narrative and perspective of an intersex person. I think that’s so brilliant and important and powerful. A lot of people don’t even know that intersex folks exist, and a lot of people only know how to identify intersex people through language that is outdated, for example, “hermaphrodite.” There are so many different terms that are derogatory that people may be familiar with in association to intersex people, but I think River brought so much humanity to an experience that people are still delegitimizing as less than human and less deserving of autonomy, and fully just put all of their potions together and made such a brilliant film. And they managed to create an intersection in their story with a trans person’s experience as well, and sort of built a scenario where this intersex person is depending on this trans person who’s so resourced, and then they’re both walking away from the situation with something that they need, and that the trans person didn’t know that they needed. This is a historic film for so many reasons, but also, I’m deeply inspired and I hope that people don’t take for granted this opportunity to learn and feel and experience something that exists outside of themselves.

Also, seeing everybody talk about what this film means to them and what it means for them to be a part of, each and every person involved that has spoken about it, I’ve seen speak so emotionally and so deeply about their relationships to their characters and also just this film. I can’t highlight enough how incredible it is to see the opportunity that River has made for people to feel deeply behind the camera, in front of the camera, in the audience, in the story. And also, River managed to put together a really beautiful group of people who are just really beautiful people, and I want to be a part of more of that in film and TV. I almost quit because I didn’t have enough of those experiences, and River reignited the love for art and filmmaking and creativity for me, and I know that they’re gonna do that for so many more people. So yeah, I took my time in talking about River and their incredible cast, my colleagues, because this is a historic project and I wanted to put as much energy as I could in really trying to explain what I wanted to say, so thank you.

Dylan O’Brien on River Gallo: “Everyone Falls in Love with Them Instantly”
Image via Photagonist at the Collider Media Studio

It’s an important thing to explain. It’s a beautiful answer.

DYLAN O’BRIEN: Watching Indya just now was incredible, and just so many reasons that you just stated were woven into that. For me, watching you speak about River, watching you speak about what this experience meant to you, watching you speak so eloquently and emotionally about how it reignited a love for you; watching Victoria literally come to tears in answering questions about her character today; watching Esteban, last night, address, in such a vulnerable way, your insecurities at first, your doubts that you had of, “Am I the right person,” and you getting emotional last night and everything, it is really profound and special that we all do feel this way about this piece that we are part of. And that is real. That’s as authentic as it gets, you know what I mean? So we’re all just, I think, very on the same page and just so presently aware of that and what this means in this moment and what this means in this moment in River’s life. And just the gratefulness that I feel, that we all feel, to be even a part of that is very true, and very true so deeply, because we all love you so much. I think we all fell in love with you instantly. Everyone falls in love with you instantly, and that is not an accident. You are light. You are so special. I mean, I know we’re born the same year, we’re also both from North Jersey, you know what I mean? I just feel like I just connected to you so much so instantly, but you’re like that with everybody. You radiate.

In terms of what the world can expect from River as an artist, I mean, this is what we want from our artists, isn’t it? Your blood is on that page, baby. This story is so truly you to your bones. We’re not going to work every day. It’s bigger than that, you know what I mean? Everyone just put everything into it. It was just so inspiring to get to go and do this every day. And then to have this moment here, I couldn’t be more grateful.

You’re all crushing this question.

ARANGO: Same. The second that I met River, I was like, “I am meeting somebody that is so unique.” I have never met anybody so in touch with their identity and so secure in who they are, even though they are in the pinnacle of breaking the conversation towards a bigger audience. That takes a lot of courage, a lot of introspection, and they did that for all of us. River challenged some things in me about my heritage, about who I am as a Latino man, and it’s made me grow so much, and I feel like this movie that we all made together is a gift. It’s a once-in-a-lifetime thing that we get to create, and it’s alchemy, really. I hope that people dig the movie and have a great time with it because it’s so fucking fun, but also life-changing.

I’ve got high hopes that’s gonna be the response to this. Alright, Vic, whatcha got?

VICTORIA PEDRETTI: I’m like, what does the future hold if people choose to …? I’m buzzing! This has been a really amazing experience getting to talk about this film a lot, but to be able to talk about you, I mean, you’re an incredible person. You’re incredibly introspective. I don’t think you come towards a sense of security and understanding yourself and holding all of your complexity as a person, that’s how you draw and paint such beautiful pictures of such complex characters. I don’t know, I’m just so curious what the next story you’re gonna make is. I kind of just have the ultimate faith that you will stay true to yourself throughout your career, and I hope you just keep being empowered to make exactly what you want. This has been such an amazing opportunity. I don’t know, I just have faith, and I think everybody else should too, and that it’s going to be brave and bold and filled with love because that’s the most important thing. This movie has a lot of tragedy and suffering in it, but ultimately it’s very hopeful, which I think you are also. I think everybody will want to work with you as long as they can respect you and let you do exactly what you want to do and just empower you to work with the people you want to work with and do what you want to do.

MOORE: Period.

Image via Photagonist at the Collider Media Studio

Those answers.

MOORE: And they better not be difficult to work with.

PEDRETTI: Yeah, because we’ll come for them.

MOORE: Because we’ll come for them.

GALLO: No, I’ll be the difficult one. [Laughs]

To touch on some characters briefly, River, I love how a character can expand when you have a different set of creators around you, so is there any new layer to Ponyboi that you discovered because of the collaboration that you had with the people sitting at this table?

GALLO: Oh my god, of course! I created something on the page that I thought I understood about the character and that I thought I understood of myself in the conceiving of the character, and with my acting coach or whatever, but working with these people, they’re the most talented, heartfelt, kind, compassionate — and did I say talented? For some reason, they believed in me and believed that, despite not leading a feature, that I could go head-to-toe with them. I mean, like, what? You guys are all in seasons of television and I’m just like, “Hey, you wanna make a movie?” [Laughs] But the collaboration with each of them on all of our scenes together, it changed my understanding of who I am and the layers of Ponyboi. I mean, I always knew he was a flawed character and a bit of an antihero, but I think there was something very early on that Esteban said to me, that I thought that Ponyboi was a hopeless romantic and then Esteban said, “No, I think he’s a hopeful romantic.”

MOORE: I’ve only ever described myself that way [laughs], and I’ve never heard anyone describe anyone [that way].

GALLO: Baby, you are, too, Ponyboi.

MOORE: Everyone has a Ponyboi inside of them.

Image via Photagonist at the Collider Media Studio

GALLO: I think that’s the thing, it’s a character that is so specific in his despair and his longing and his yearning that it becomes really universal. I discovered in myself that the movie is really about the journey of discovering one’s belonging and redemption and the ability to be okay with the uncertainties that life throws our way. And I think all of them made me feel okay about this next chapter of my life that is going to, you know, foreseeably be very different than what I once knew it to be. But I just know that I have a family, a new family now that we created on Ponyboi and I’m just thrilled to make more movies with them.

Special thanks to our 2024 partners at Sundance including presenting partner Film.io and supporting partners Pressed Juicery and DragonFly Coffee Roasters.