The Big Picture

The Expendables franchise has evolved over time by focusing on strong storytelling and fully fleshed-out characters that contribute to the overall plot. The third film suffered at the box office due to an attempt to appeal to a wider audience with a PG-13 rating, which disappointed die-hard fans looking for the visceral action they loved. The future of the Expendables franchise depends on fan support and positive reception of Expendables 4, with potential for more films to be made if audiences enjoy the return to basics and well-crafted storylines.

Producer Les Weldon knows a thing or two about action movies. He’s honed the craft since the mid-’90s before joining the Has Fallen series with Gerard Butler and serving as producer on this franchise since The Expendables in 2010. He has a passion for the story and a respect for action fans and audiences that makes him the perfect partner for the fourth Jason Statham-led entry, Expend4bles.

Teaming up with director Scott Waugh (Need for Speed), Weldon tells Collider’s Perri Nemiroff that in the years following The Expendables 3, there were calls for more of Sylvester Stallone and Statham’s quippy duo, to which they responded, but under one condition: “If we’re gonna make another one, we’re gonna do it right.” Nearly a decade later, the fourth in the franchise sees Stallone’s Barney Ross revisited by past mistakes, and the team, comprised of Barney, Christmas (Statham), Easy (50 Cent), Gunner (Dolph Lundgren), Toll (Randy Couture), and Galan (Jacob Scipio), is sent to stop mercenaries led by Suarto Rahmat (Iko Uwais) from stealing nuclear weapons. When the Expendables collide headfirst with tragedy, it’s up to this misfit group of heroes to stop a war from starting between the United States and Russia.

Check out Perri’s interview in the full transcript below to find out how the minds behind Expend4bles pivoted to find the roots of what fans first loved about the franchise. Weldon discusses the importance of fully fleshed-out characters versus cameos, bringing on new talents like Couture, Levy Tran (The First Purge), Tony Jaa (Ong-Bak: The Thai Warrior), and Uwais (The Raid: Redemption), and what he’s learned about crafting action over his storied career. Weldon also shares updates for future projects like Hellboy: The Crooked Man with Jack Kesy (12 Strong), Red Sonja, and the future of the Has Fallen franchise.

Image via Lionsgate

PERRI NEMIROFF: You’ve been with the franchise since the very beginning so what is something that you all accomplished in Expendables 4 that would make 2010 you producing the first Expendables movie go, “Damn, I never thought we’d be able to pull that off with this franchise one day?”

LES WELDON: The original Expendables was an experiment of sorts. We didn’t know what would happen bringing all these action stars together. I mean, was that gonna be just everybody’s ego, too big to even fit on the set? Was it going to be a love fest or somewhere in between? So, there were a lot of unknowns with the first one. You discover things as you go, and you make some mistakes, and then you discover other cool things, and it sort of evolves as a film itself. Clearly, people loved it and they responded to it. They loved having these guys, which maybe they didn’t have the time to go out and see, you know, five or six movies they were making, they could now see all five or six movies in one film. So, that one kind of stood on its own. But what has to happen is you have to let the franchise grow, and you have to let a franchise like this breathe, and you have to, in essence, expand the story. And I think the evolution of it is, coming to this fourth one, we’ve realized a couple of things – we realized we shouldn’t try to outguess the audience and give them what we think they need in terms of a rating or the amount of violence, or we know Expendable fans, they love that visceral experience, they love the crunch. Secondly, we sort of understood that, really, the story is king here. That story has to work, and it doesn’t always work by just bringing in a bunch of actors with cameos because they have an interaction with one of the Expendables and then they kind of go off, and it was like, “Oh, that was cool to see him, but what does that have to do with the story?”

So this one was kind of getting back to basics, getting back to, really, what we were trying to accomplish on the first one, which was let’s get the story right here, and not only get the story right, but let’s get the characters right. Any new characters that come in, they have to contribute something to the story, and they have to contribute to some kind of refreshing, even of all the other characters in there. In a sense, for example, we could have brought somebody in, and they’re bumping heads with Jason [Statham] or doing whatever. Instead, it’s much more fun to have somebody like Megan Fox, who can play tough and play sexy, and you see her banter that reminds you of, “Oh, that banter that he also has with Barney,” and to see her physicality and to see them grappling and wrestling. That gives Jason’s character kind of a new light and a new twist. The same goes with 50 Cent and Dolph [Lundgren]. Dolph’s character can become a little bit too low-key, if you will, but you bring someone like 50 Cent in, and now there’s some sparks flying. So what we had to do is we really had to focus on the most important thing, that’s the story and the characters that work, that the audience can also get behind and enjoy. The same thing with Levy Tran and Randy [Couture], and then bringing our legends from the East. I mean, that was amazing with Tony [Jaa] and Iko [Uwais], and then having Andy Garcia in there. You’ve got this great actor in there sort of throwing a wrench in everything. So, everything was by design on this one. Everything had to fit, the story had to work; otherwise, there’s no point in doing it.

Image via Lionsgate

I wanted to ask you a box office question because the third movie did not do as well at the box office as the first two, so I was wondering if you could give us a little bit of a peek behind the curtain. When something like that happens, how do you all go about figuring out if you should continue the franchise, and then once you come to the conclusion that you should, what are the things that need to happen in order to make sure you get the support you need to make the new film a reality?

WELDON: That’s a very good point you bring up because, you know, on the third one, I don’t know, it was probably an overreach on our part or something we assumed. We went for the PG-13. Look, in our mind, it was really to sort of try to reintroduce Expendables maybe to a wider audience, but I think that maybe the real fans felt a little bit short-changed. They wanna feel that explosion in their face and the machine guns and all that visceral action, that rumbling and trembling. I think they’ve maybe felt a little bit, you know, they didn’t know what to make of it sort of thing. And again, the story itself became, for me, a little bit bloated, perhaps. I still think it was a fun ride and a fun film, but on this one, we said, “Okay,” because a couple of years after the third one, we were getting a lot of interest, a lot of buyers. “When are you making another one? When are you making another one?” And that’s when we said, “If we’re gonna make another one, we’re gonna do it right. We are gonna forget who’s gonna be in it. We know our core, our foundation. Let’s get the story right, and then if that’s working, let’s think of the actors that we want to bring in, but the actors that really work, that will push this story and push the franchise and refresh it all, more importantly.” So there’s sort of a mix. There’s a couple of younger actors, there’s a couple of older actors, but that sort of mix between the personalities is what works on this one because they all affect each other. Every one of them affects the other without just being, you know, a square into a round hole.

As far as actors go, whether it’s in another Expendables-affiliated project or anything that you produce in the future, can you pinpoint a dream action star you’re dying to work with? But then I also want to know, who’s another actor that you admire who’s the furthest thing from an action star, but you’d love to see switch gears and give the genre a go?

WELDON: As far as another Expendables, I can’t even comment on that because I’m still swimming. My brain is still…you know. Simply, I can’t make another Expendables happen. This has to be something that you and the fans, and whoever sees the film go, “This was great to have this back. Let’s have another one!” So, starting there in terms of thinking of other actors, I think the approach we need to take is similar to this one that we did here. If this works and the audience likes this, let’s think again, let’s start again at those basics. We know our guys who are in it, who else can come in once we get the story down? But until that happens, you can say, “Oh, let’s bring this guy and this guy and this guy.”

In terms of actors, I’ve been very fortunate in my career. All of my kind of younger idols, whether it be [Robert] De Niro, Sly [Stallone], Gerry Butler, and all these guys I’ve had the pleasure to work with. I never worked with Tom Cruise, I’ve never worked with Keanu Reeves, who I would love to, who Lionsgate’s got a franchise with. But there are some actors that I would say, “Wow, it would be very cool to work with him and with her.” But as a producer, it’s more a matter of the right project at the right time, and there are so many projects and the time never seems right. And so all I can say is I’ve been the luckiest guy in the world to have worked with the actors I’ve had. I mean, it’s just been such an amazing experience to work with Oscar winners and big box office stars. I can’t say how lucky I’ve been.

Image via Lionsgate

I’m always curious about picking the right title for a film. What are some examples of other titles you considered for Expendables 4, and then why did you all come to the conclusion that Expend4bles was the right route to go?

WELDON: There’s a certain brand identification that you wanna stick with. And again, it’s trying not to, I don’t want to say even outthink the audience because you never can, but trying not to project what you think the audience wants. So, Expendables is such a staple that for us, it was never gonna be about, “Oh, we have to call this, you know, The New Christmas Movie, or we have to call…” For us, it was always gonna be Expend4bles, and then Lionsgate, to their credit, came up with that cool four where the A was. And I thought, “Now see, that’s rebranding and rebranding in a cool way where our audience, seeing that, knows, ‘Oh, great, there’s a new Expendables. I don’t have to think about, ‘Well, what is This Christmas or This Randy?’” Or whatever it is, the story or title that we’re going with. And generally, marketing people, they kind of understand titles and whatnot, and the title should be anchored to the story and the characters, even more importantly, and I think we don’t want to stray from Expendables. That’s the base of their existence. They are guys who go out, all they have is each other, and they can die from one moment to the next, and really disappear. They’re Expendables. So I think that’s a title that we don’t want to mess with.

I’ve got a couple of upcoming projects I wanted to touch on because you’re working on a number of very cool properties. The first is Hellboy: The Crooked Man, which I’m very excited about. Can you tell me something about Jack [Kesy’s] performance as Hellboy that makes his version of the character uniquely his own, where it stands out from the other live-action versions we’ve seen?

WELDON: We went on a long soul-searching expedition to find the right Hellboy, and we knew that this Hellboy was gonna be a very moody, very kind of dark and creepy movie. There’s no gloss, nothing like that. And Jack, look, I had worked with Jack before, as had other guys in our company, and we sort of came to the same conclusion that that sort of personality he has was gonna work really nicely for that film.

You produced the 2019 version of Hellboy, so what is something you learned about bringing that source material to screen on that film that influenced how you approach doing it on Crooked Man?

WELDON: The 2019 version, while I thought that there was some really cool and great stuff, I think it was compared maybe unfairly to Guillermo [del Toro’s] Hellboy’s. Having to compete with that made it a little glossier than the fans maybe liked or wanted, and so that’s why this new one is a little more retro, if you like.

Image via Lionsgate

Here’s another big franchise you work on, the Has Fallen films. Is the plan still to make, I believe, another three movies, and do you have a start date for Night Has Fallen?

WELDON: Ooh, again, another three unless the next one does…you know. It’s the same as Expendables. We need to do the next one, and if that works as well as the previous three, then anything is on the table, really.

The next one on my list here is Red Sonja. I read that you screened a trailer at San Diego Comic-Con this year. Will everybody be able to watch that online soon?

WELDON: Yeah. We’re just about finished with the editing. That film is very rooted and very real if you will, but there are a couple of sequences that we have to get the CGI right so that you don’t look at it and go, “Oh, that creature wasn’t quite there.” So we finished the film, and we’re ready to get into the next part of post on it.

Because you brought up CG, how would you describe the digital effects and tone of Red Sonja compared to, let’s say, something like Hellboy?

WELDON: Well, Red Sonja is also a little bit of a, I don’t wanna say a darker take, but a little bit darker take than you would expect, certainly compared to the original Red Sonja. We want to be very careful with the CG to make sure it’s done properly and does the film a service rather than a disservice.

My last question about an upcoming project is a selfish one because I’m friends with Erlingur [Thoroddsen] and I’m always rooting for him. When are we gonna get to see The Piper?

WELDON: The Piper should be out, I think, in the next month or two, if I’m not mistaken. By the end of the year, for sure.

I like hearing that. I’m always rooting for him. I think he is a very special voice in this business.

WELDON: Very nice guy and talented guy.

Image via Lionsgate

Big, broad action filmmaking question to end on. What is one goal you’ve had when making action movies that has stayed consistent since day one, but then on the other hand, what’s a new goal that’s emerged more recently based on how the industry and what audiences want have evolved?

WELDON: Action is tricky, and not because you have to come up with inventive ways, that’s kind of the fun part of action. Action in and of itself can be, if not done properly, the death of story and the death of character. The action has to be organic. It has to, in essence, shed some light on the characters and something about their personalities, and something good and bad about that. Otherwise, action for action’s sake is, quite frankly, boring unless you’ve got those characters. The most important thing for action is the characters, is do you care about those characters first of all? Then you put them in any kind of action, and it’s like, “Oh my god, I don’t want these guys to die! I want these guys to succeed,” or this and that. Otherwise, you’re basically watching a train wreck from a distance, and you’re like, “Oh my god, these people are gonna die, but I don’t know who these people are. I just hope this doesn’t happen,” and it becomes uninteresting. It becomes sort of muted if you will. Whereas, action with good characters, you’re in that action as an audience member.

Expend4bles is in theaters now.