The Big Picture

Perri Nemiroff chats with Emerald Fennell about her bold, stylish, and downright wild second feature film as a director, Saltburn. Fennell emphasizes the importance of creating a trust-based, collaborative environment on set to tackle the “complicated, sticky and exposing” narrative of Saltburn. Fennell is also a big horror fan and affirmed directing a full-fledged horror movie is in her future.

For her sophomore feature, writer-director Emerald Fennell approached Saltburn with an Oscar under her belt and a clear vision for her production. Being nominated for Best Picture and Best Director and taking home Best Screenplay for her directorial debut, Promising Young Woman, allowed Fennell the opportunity to “go away” and work diligently on her next script and create the psychological drama she wanted to make with minimal interference.

The script for Saltburn attracted a seriously impressive ensemble cast, including Barry Keoghan, Jacob Elordi, and Rosamund Pike, and throws them all into a twisted Gothic drama that tracks the trajectory of Oxford University student Oliver Quick (Keoghan). Oliver is struggling to find his place among his peers when he meets the charismatic Felix Catton (Elordi). Felix takes an interest in Oliver and invites him to the sprawling estate of his peculiar family for the summer, where delicious debauchery unfolds, snaring Oliver in their wicked ways.

While talking with Collider’s Perri Nemiroff, Fennell discussed her approach to directing actors and how she went about creating an on-set environment that would support the “complicated, sticky and exposing” narrative she wanted to tell. She also tells Perri about some elements that were trimmed from early drafts of the script, her favorite Are You Afraid of the Dark? episode, and if we’ll get to see an Emerald Fennell-directed horror movie someday. You can watch the full interview in the video above the article, or you can read it in transcript form below.

Saltburn A student at Oxford University finds himself drawn into the world of a charming and aristocratic classmate, who invites him to his eccentric family’s sprawling estate for a summer never to be forgotten. Release Date November 17, 2023 Director Emerald Fennell Cast Rosamund Pike, Barry Keoghan, Jacob Elordi, Carey Mulligan, Archie Madekwe Rating R Runtime 127 minutes Main Genre Drama
PERRI NEMIROFF: It’s really difficult to get your first feature as a director off the ground, but it can be just as hard to get the second one off the ground, too — even if your first one got a whole lot of Academy Award love! So, what would you say is one big misconception about what it means to make your second feature, but then on the other hand, what is something about Promising Young Woman that really did help you get Saltburn off the ground and made the way you wanted?

EMERALD FENNELL: God, that’s an incredibly difficult question to answer, but I love it! I love it. What Promising Young Woman did, and what the incredible success that truly none of us could have ever expected did, was it enabled me to have the process which I can only really do, which is to go away, not tell anyone what I’m working on, not show anyone anything at all, not talk about it. I write it, and then I give it to my managers and agents and say, “This is the thing that I want to make. If anyone else wants to make it, incredible. And if not, that’s fine. We can find something else.” I think what it does is it means that you don’t end up in that very sticky place, which lots of filmmakers, I think, can get caught up in, which is that thing of development. Everyone loves an idea. They think it’s really sexy. Then you deliver the script, and they’re like, “Aww, I thought it was going to be something different because of when you pitched it in the room.” And like, “Oh, I always imagined this actor in it, not this actor.” The thing is, what happens then is you are kind of making something by committee. And obviously, the moment you start casting, the moment you start being in prep, and all of that kind of stuff, it becomes completely egalitarian. You have, you desire, you need everyone’s input.

That’s what’s so wonderful – it is a group effort making a movie. But I think the writing of it, and the conceiving of the thing you want to make in all of the different ways, has to be completely solitary for me. So, that process enabled me to make the thing I wanted to make next. I think if I’d pitched this movie in all of its kind of gory detail, people would have said, “Yes! But maybe we could change this.” It minimizes the interference.

I am so glad you made this movie the exact way you wanted because I can’t imagine it any other way.

FENNELL: Thank you! Thank you so much. [Laughs]

Image Via MGM

So, bringing up the collaborative nature once you do wind up hitting the set, it does make me wonder, what would you say is the biggest difference between draft one of this screenplay and what we will now see in the finished film?

FENNELL: Oh, that’s so interesting. You know, I try to be pretty close. I try to be pretty close to the draft. I’m quite a stickler. But I think that once the actors come in, the connection and the love becomes more apparent. What we worked on a lot once they all came on board was why they love each other, even if we’re talking about people who are not capable or good at showing love. I mean, there’s no one in this film who actually knows how to communicate love effectively or in a healthy way. So, so much of our work, then, was in the deep parts of why they love each other and what it feels like to love people and how that is complicated, and I think that you really feel that in the movie.

The Collateral Damage of ‘Saltburn’
Image via MGM

I can’t wait to jump to your ensemble, but first, I do have a question that I wanted to ask based on another interview you did where you mentioned that along the way, there were some other characters that fell by the wayside. Can you share anything about one of those characters?

FENNELL: It’s so funny, isn’t it? Because all of those people got slaughtered for a reason [laughs], and they all got booted off a cliff for a reason. I think that there was more stuff at Oxford initially, so there was more Michael Gavey, who was Oliver’s sort of friend who gets immediately culled once he gets a better offer. There were also some more of what I would call the “collateral damage” of the Catton family. There was a moment with one of the boys from the past, one of the former favorites. But it’s difficult with this film because there are so many characters. It really is an ensemble. The problem is, the more people you have, the less time you then spend on the people that you really love and need to know. There were so many. There’s a world where this film could have been, like, 20 hours long. I mean, poor dear Pamela and Elspeth alone could be their own film! [Laughs]

I would happily watch that really long version of this film, but also, it’s nice to know that that world and that experience exists, or be convinced that it exists based on this shorter, more contained version of the story that we do get.

How Emerald Fennell Runs Her Set

A directing actors question for you. What is something that another director did for you in the past that you appreciated and always strive to do for your actors when you’re directing, but then on the other hand, what is something that you wished more actors’ directors had done for you that now you always make sure your cast has?

FENNELL: That’s a really good question. I think Chanya Button who is an incredible director who directed a film called Vita & Virginia that I was in, is an absolute expert at running a trust-based, warm set. She makes sure she has time for everyone, she’s incredibly inspiring, she’s resolute but kind. I think that she’s so inspiring when it comes to just creating the kind of atmosphere that means people can play, and that’s something that’s so important to me to make a space. [That] sounds so kind of twee and cheesy, but to make a space where people feel that they can make mistakes, where they feel that they can come to you with an idea that is outlandish and they’re not gonna be crucified for it, she was so inspiring in that regard.

Also, Joe Wright, I have to say. He is so specific about what he wants in a way that I really responded to as an actor. What I liked was the detail, what I liked was the precision. He has an exact thing in his mind, and there’s something so wonderful about giving yourself over to that kind of process, giving yourself over to someone for them to tell you exactly what they want. That I found very interesting and inspiring.

The thing that I hated most as an actress was the sense that there was a conversation going on by the monitor that wasn’t coming to me. That in the walk between video village to me, something was being sugarcoated. I just hate it. Hate it. Hate it. It made me feel gross and insecure and freaked out, like a baby. And so, the thing that I always do, and I kind of talk to actors even before we’re getting into it, is establish how honest we can be with each other.” That’s not to say that I’ll ever be cruel, and that runs both ways. Actually, it’s the opposite. We’re all in this together. From the beginning, there are no nice trailers, everyone has the same shitty two-way, nobody goes back to base for changes, there’s a makeup station on set, there’s a green room on set. Whether you’ve got one line or you’re the star, that’s where you hang out. We all eat together, cast and crew. It is very, very important to me that everyone understands that we are in this together and we are all able to be as honest with each other. We’re not gonna pussyfoot around each other.

When you’re making a film that is as complicated and sticky and exposing as this film is for all of us, not least the actors, you have got to trust each other. And you’ve also got to trust that your boundaries will be respected, too. That’s a big, big thing for me. We have an amazing intimacy coordinator, and it meant that all of us felt so much more comfortable just talking about stuff. It’s just treating everyone like grownups, and expecting that you yourself will be treated like a grownup, too. There is nothing in the world that makes me more impatient than the sense I’m being managed. It makes me insane. And it’s designed to make you insane.

Image Via MGM

It’s that simple! I don’t understand why every single person at the helm of a film does not lead their company that way.

FENNELL: Because a lot of them are not concerned with that.

If you’re not concerned with that, you’re not concerned about the quality of your film overall because, ultimately, that trickles down. It breaks my heart to think about a film being ruined that way.

FENNELL: But also, I think the thing that’s really important is it’s not just a kind of basic level of human decency and care. It’s not to say I’m perfect, by the way. We all have our moments. But it’s actually just bad business because the truth of it is, if you’re all happy and you all love each other, and you respect each other, you do work that is better and more interesting and more difficult. I want to make something complicated. I want to make something messy and difficult that people argue about, and that isn’t necessarily gonna be the most easy to pin down thing, and in order to make something like that, you have to create a very specific kind of environment.

That’s a beautiful answer and beautiful approach.

Will Emerald Fennell Ever Direct Horror?
Image via Merie Weismiller Wallace / Focus Features

To briefly touch on what could come next from you, because I love horror movies and I see a very intoxicating darkness in both of the films that you’ve made, is a full-fledged horror movie in your future?

FENNELL: Definitely. I don’t know that it will necessarily be the next thing, but I am a horror fiend. I think horror is the greatest. It’s the greatest. And it’s so exciting now that horror movies seem to be getting their just. They’re getting their due. Horror was one of the first movie mediums, right? Horror and romance – the Gothic. That’s what movies were made to do. So, yeah, absolutely. I hope so one day.

Emerald Fennell’s Favorite ‘Are You Afraid of the Dark’ Episode
Image via Nickelodeon

I also heard you’re a big fan of Are You Afraid of the Dark?, so that left me wondering, what is your favorite Are You Afraid of the Dark? episode/segment?

FENNELL: Okay, I think it’s everyone’s favorite – it’s Melissa Joan Hart, “I’m cold.” It’s the boy standing outside her window saying, “I’m cold.” And the twist is that it’s a boy who died because he didn’t have his sweater? And it was in a log? And I was like, “Oh, how can I be both so terrified of this, but also so moved by Sabrina the Teenage Witch?”

That’s a good answer! I hear that one a lot. I love “Tale of the Midnight Madness,” the Nosferatu-inspired one.

FENNELL: I don’t remember that one!

It’s so good. It was a gateway horror experience where I had to know what inspired it after.

FENNELL: Did you have the game? Did you have the PC game?

I did. I did have the game. [Laughs]

FENNELL: I need that game. I need to play that game again because the music still gives me chills. I still think about that game all the time. The eyeballs? I mean, that game was insanely frightening for a tiny child!

That was my world for a really, really long time.

FENNELL: Oh, me too.

Saltburn is in theaters in the U.S. on November 22. Purchase tickets here.