The Big Picture

John Wick: Chapter 4 was initially planned to be split into two separate movies, but director Chad Stahelski and Keanu Reeves decided to condense the story into one film. Stahelski and his team used Belgian Malinois dogs in the last two John Wick movies because they are intelligent problem solvers and look cool on screen. The decision to have John Wick lose his finger in John Wick 3 was meant to symbolize him killing the possibility of a future with his wife, and director Stahelski doesn’t regret the choice despite the challenges it posed during filming.

It’s safe to say that John Wick is one of the most influential and iconic action movies of the 21st century. Since its release in 2014, it has spawned four sequels, each one more financially successful than the last, a prequel television series titled The Continental, video games, and the upcoming spin-off film Ballerina, starring Academy Award nominee Ana de Armas. The film not only reignited the career of Keanu Reeves, but it turned its directors, Chad Stahelski and David Leitch, into two of the most sought-after filmmakers in Hollywood. While Leitch left the franchise after the first film, Stahelski stayed on to direct all three sequels, capping it off earlier this year with the nearly 3-hour finale John Wick: Chapter 4.

The film was a massive hit at the box office, making $440.1 million worldwide and garnering acclaim from critics and audiences. The film finds John traveling across the globe to seek his revenge on the mysterious High Table. Reeves once again reprised his role as John alongside a vast ensemble cast that included Ian McShane, Lance Reddick, Laurence Fishburne, Donnie Yen, Bill Skarsgård, Hiroyuki Sanada, Scott Adkins, Rina Sawayama, Clancy Brown, and Shamier Anderson among others.

As Lionsgate mounts up an awards campaign for the film, we were lucky enough to talk with Stahelski who revealed some of the exciting secrets behind making the movie, including the iconic action star who almost played the blind assassin Caine (the role ultimately went to Donnie Yen, another icon), training the film’s canine stars, and what Stahelski plans to do next.

John Wick: Chapter 4 John Wick uncovers a path to defeating The High Table. But before he can earn his freedom, Wick must face off against a new enemy with powerful alliances across the globe and forces that turn old friends into foes. Release Date March 24, 2023 Director Chad Stahelski Cast Keanu Reeves, Donnie Yen, Bill Skarsgard, Laurence Fishburne, Hiroyuki Sanada, Lance Reddick Rating R Runtime 169 minutes Main Genre Action Genres Action, Crime Writers Derek Kolstad
COLLIDER: I am a massive fan of John Wick. I am also a huge fan of dogs, and one of the things that I particularly loved about the last two movies is that you use the Belgian Malinois and one of my dogs is part Belgian. I was curious: what made you decide to use Belgians in the last two installments?

CHAD STAHELSKI: My mom was an Irish Wolfhound breeder for a long time, so we grew up with a lot of dogs. Andrew Simpson, who was our animal trainer on this, we’ve wanted to do dogs since John Wick 2 after the first one, but we had so much going on and we were already strapped pretty thin, I couldn’t fit them into John Wick 2. So I was like, “If I do a John Wick 3 we’re putting dogs in.” [Laughs] So I contacted Andrew, who I had reference through Game of Thrones and all the wolves he had done there, and I had this wacky idea because I have dogs myself, and at the time, I had two puppies, two rescues that I got, and I just had this idea, so I tried it with them. I just made them chase the little ball, so it was play, and then I put the little ball in my sweatshirt sleeve and they attacked the sleeve, and it looked like they were hitting me.

When you see dog attacks on screen, the dog doesn’t know it’s a movie. What you see is a dog attacking a human just in the get-up, and that’s not really good for the person [and] it’s not really good for the dog. So I kept going to trainers, asking, “Hey, can I just make this play? Can we just train them from pups and just treat it like it’s fun so it’s not psychologically damaging or anything like that for the dog and the dogs, when we say cut, they know it’s just fun time?” [Laughs] I got a lot of straight stares, so I went to Andrew, and he’s like, “Yeah, it should be no problem. Let’s do that! But we gotta go find the smartest dogs.” And I’m like, “Okay, of all the breeds,” and I had done my little research between Dutch Shepherds, German Shepherds. He’s like, “Oh, well, we have to do Belgians.” Not only are they bred and raised for the military, they’re problem solvers. They have an early maturity rate. They’re just tough all day, and they look fucking cool.

I think we were slowly casting, so he brought me the first two that he had got, and yeah, I just fell in love with them. I mean, they were so clever. I mean, you have to play with them like eight hours a day, but they were fantastic. So that’s the route we went. We just kept experimenting and experimenting, and the dogs exceeded all our hopes. The amount of footage I have on dog stunts that we didn’t use in the movie because I didn’t want to turn it into, you know, Turner & Hooch or anything. But we have so many more great gags we put on camera that we didn’t get to use.

Was ‘John Wick: Chapter 4’ Ever Supposed to be Split Into Two Movies?
Image via Lionsgate

I remember hearing that the fourth movie and the fifth movie were initially supposed to shoot back to back…

STAHELSKI: Yeah, I read something like that, too. Yeah.

But the ending of the fourth movie seems so finite. I was wondering if there was ever a plan to split the fourth one into two different movies. Was that the plan all along?

STAHELSKI: No. Sometimes, I wake up to things in the industry magazines that are pretty funny. I woke up to that one saying I’m doing a [John Wick] 4 and 5. I think because, at the time in development, we had such a big idea that it was assumed that we’d try to break it. That was early in development, and then we started trimming and started moving things around, changing the story, and Keanu and I figured like, “Oh no…” You know, people didn’t think we could do everything we wanted to in one film, so I think they kept that idea alive, and even into post. I think my early assembly was three hours and 40 minutes, so of course, a lot of interested people probably went, “Yep, we’re cuttin’ this one in two!” [Laughs] And, I mean, it was a legitimate concern and thought. It was just never the way Keanu and I saw it, so we just worked and worked and worked and cut down a bunch of sequences, and took some stuff out, and ended up with a movie that you now see in one film. But the idea was always that, yes, John Wick ends his journey like he does at the end of the movie, and that was gonna be the end of that for now.

I remember even thinking about it when I first saw it, I was really glad the marketing didn’t say anything about “the last chapter,” or anything like that.

STAHELSKI: They did a good job with that. I think, at the end of the day, this is not unwarranted. I mean, look, this whole thing is meant to be a myth. It’s meant to be a fable or whatever. Keanu and I like messing with people, so we’re just like, “Did John Wick die? Who died? Is it a ruse by Winston? Did he really die? Is it over, or is it just some ruse? What’s going on? How is John Wick gonna mess with you now?” And the truth is you won’t know because we don’t know [laughs] because it’s a question mark in our heads, too. So, whether that’s clever or just being really obtuse, I don’t know. But it leaves a little room. Who knows, man? Never say never. If Keanu and I woke up tomorrow and had an idea, we’d be working on it right then. So, we’ll see.

Chad Stahelski on John Wick Fan Theories

Speaking of the funeral at the end of the movie, my friend gave me this theory. Do you read a lot of John Wick theories?

STAHELSKI: Once in a while somebody will send me some of the fun ones. [Laughs]

I was curious what you about this one. Initially, my friend was like, “Oh, maybe Winston is John Wick’s dad.” I’m like, “I don’t think it’s that…” Because at the end, when he says, ‘Farewell my son,’ but I kind of caught on to believing that he might be the father-in-law. Have you heard of that?

STAHELSKI: Yeah. No, that’s a pretty common one, actually. I get that a lot. Did it come full circle that Helen was Winston’s daughter? Look, that’s a pretty good– That’s not where we had initially thought, but could it go there? Yeah, I think that’s pretty clever. I think it’s cool. I think there is a familiar relationship there for sure.

Another thing I was really thinking about throughout watching the fourth movie was how he lopped his finger off in the third movie. Did you ever regret doing that or was it ever something you had to pay attention to when editing the fourth film?

STAHELSKI: Oh, yeah. [Laughs] You think the studio thought that was a good idea? In number three, we cut it off because we figured that number three was our last one. I have a friend over at Lionsgate, and as soon as we said “number four,” he’s like, “That finger is gonna fuck us.” I’m like, “Yep. It’s awesome.” But no, man, Keanu and I, we like stigmata. We like symbolism. So it wasn’t about taking a wedding ring, it was about taking the finger that ring’s on so we could never put a wedding ring on again. He’s killing the possibility of that future symbolism. That’s a powerful little mechanism for what we’re trying to say there. So no, I don’t regret it all. If anything, I kind of find it kind of funny. It drove my visual effects supervisor nuts, but you figure every shot with Keanu in the movie was removing that finger. So, you know, a little pain, but it was worth it.

Speaking of the transition between the third and fourth movie, the elder had changed between the third and the fourth and I know it was supposed to be a different elder, but was that the plan all along?

STAHELSKI: Saïd [Taghmaoui] played the elder in the third one. Sometimes Hollywood is– I’m surprised any movies get made with scheduling and logistics and all that. If the schedules don’t work or all the tumblers don’t click, sometimes you just have to move forward, so then you try to make adjustments. I’m not bummed about it. I like the character, Saïd, the actor that played the character in the third one, but I also like who we got in the fourth one. I think he did a fantastic job. It just fits the story, so it worked out in our favor, actually. But yeah, it wasn’t original. But then when we knew option A wasn’t available, again, you don’t want to just phone it in, so you go, “Okay, let’s create the story. There’s an evolution, this has happened…” It would have been very easy just to cut out the whole desert sequence and just start in the Bowery King’s world, but you’re like, “Okay, well, the catalyst for the movie is John killed the president, and now bad things are gonna happen, and here we go.” So, we didn’t have that original idea, so by not having a schedule workout, we actually came up with what I think is a better plot point.

How Involved Is Keanu Reeves in Casting?
Image via Lionsgate

With the casting for these movies, I’ve noticed John Wick 2 is the reunion between Laurence Fishburne and Keanu Reeves. Does Keanu have a large part, as well, in who you cast in these movies?

STAHELSKI: Oh no. Not in all films is it like this, but like it’s not say or nay, it’s Keanu is an active collaborative partner in this. There’s very few big decisions I don’t include him in. Take control out of it for a second; I can have all the ideas in the world, and there are some that are kooky shit, like, “John Wick on a horse!” I can say that all day long, but Keanu’s gotta do it. So if I don’t include him in these and get a gauge, like how far I can push, or where I can go with the character or with action, that’s not gonna help. Then you end up with this clusterfuck of, “I’ll try to do it with doubles or CG,” and then you get this antagonistic energy going. We didn’t want that, so Keanu’s gotta sit there. So yes, I’m the director and I can say, “We’re going with this guy,” but that’s not gonna lead to anything great. It’s like, “Hey, look, I talked to Halle Berry…” and he’s like, “Halle Berry? That’s cool! Let’s go.” And he gets excited, so then you see the chemistry and you know you’re gonna get good scenes, right?

You know, Keanu comes to me and goes, “I want John Wick on a horse!” I just start smiling, like, “Okay, this is gonna work,” you know what I mean? I’m like, “Keanu, nunchucks?” He’s like, “I love nunchucks!” And you know, “Okay, the energy’s gonna be there.” So when you go, “Hey, I’m looking at Donnie Yen,” and Keanu gets really quiet, stops what he’s doing, and looks up like, “No you’re not.” I’m like, “No really. I’m gonna call Donnie Yen.” He’s like, “Yeah, come on, we’ll never get him.” It’s like, “No, no, no, he’s interested.” He’s like, “You’re kidding? Donnie Yen?” And you can see Keanu just stop what he’s doing and smile. He’s like, “If we get Donnie Yen, it’s a whole different thing.” And I was like, “Yes, it is. Let’s go.” [Laughs] You can kind of know beforehand the energy of what’s going to be put in because of the interest and the collaborative nature of Keanu.

You make it sound like he’s like a kid on Christmas.

STAHELSKI: Believe me, look, we take our jobs very seriously, especially around stunts and safety. It’s a very professionally serious set, but don’t mistake for a second that 90% of our department heads and crew are just laughing like kids on Christmas Day. You know what my job really is? Let me get this straight, you come up with cool, wacky shit, make pretty pictures and blow shit up? Like, dude, it’s not a bad gig. So, yeah, we’re all having fun.

Jackie Chan Was Initially Eyed to Play Caine Before Donnie Yen Stepped In
Image via Lionsgate

Speaking of Donnie Yen, how did he end up getting cast in the movie?

STAHELSKI: Oh, I’m a huge, huge, huge, huge fan. Donnie is such a busy guy right now, and I had met Donnie, but I didn’t really know him. I spent a lot more time with Jackie Chan, so while writing the script, I had Jackie in mind as an older blind swordsman kind of guy. You can kind of picture the old man with the cane and the whole thing like that. And because of other things very early on, Jackie couldn’t do it due to scheduling, and COVID had just started. It kind of messed with everything, everyone’s schedule, so we just kept developing, developing, developing. Cut to months and months later, the script had changed so much, the story had changed so much, and my idea of what the character should be kind of changed.

I’ve always wanted to work with Donnie, so I called up Donnie, and, to be very fair to Donnie, I called up Donnie, and we had this chat, and I told him the story about how it was originally written for a much older character to do this. And Donnie, who’s incredibly forward and blunt, goes, “Look, I love your movies, but I’ve been a blind swordsman before. I’ve been the rogue one and all the other stuff.” He’s like, “I’ve been that guy before. Why do I have to be this old guy that stumbles around like this?” I’m like, “Well, you know…I don’t know, you’re blind?” He’s like,

“Well, why can’t I be cool?” I’m like, “What do you mean?” He’s like, “That’s not cool. I wanna be John Wick. John Wick is cool. Why can’t it be John Wick but blind and cool?” And it just hit me, and then I called Donnie back the next day. Donnie and I both pulled all these pictures of Bruce Lee in the skinny tie and the suit and stuff. He’s like, “No, dude,” he’s like, “Caine should be the coolest dude in this movie with the sunglasses and the stuff.” Donnie literally built that character, and I’m like, “Donnie, this is awesome. This is what I like.”

So look, I’m a huge fan of Donnie. You gotta remember, Donnie’s like Keanu; he’s a director, a producer, a writer, and an actor, so he sees things from a lot of different directions. So the fact that he was interested, and not only was he interested in the property and in the films, but he is interested in working with Keanu and I in a collaborative way. Once we knew it was okay to create and give his ideas and work them into it, it was one of the best relationships I’ve had with a cast member in development ever.

Chad Stahelski’s Next Movies
Image via Lionsgate

So, this has also been on my mind a lot, especially since the news popped back up in my feed: the Highlander reboot with Henry Cavill. Do you know when you’re gonna start filming? Do you have a date yet or the script?

STAHELSKI: We do not have a date, but let’s say within a year. [Laughs] Soon. Soon as soon as I can. I’ve been developing two shows side by side: Ghost of Tsushima and Highlander. Those are the ones that I love. I have a couple of other ones that I really love. I have Rainbow Six and a few other things, but they’re still in development in the script phases. I’ve been trying to do Highlander now for eight years. I’d really love to do it. All the tumblers seem to be in play, and if everything goes well, we get finished with this strike, and our schedules all work out, it looks very, very probable.

Do you think Highlander will be next or Ghost of Tsushima?

STAHELSKI: I think they’re both in good spots. I don’t want to speak to that until we get out of the strikes and all that.

I know the John Wick universe is expanding. There’s the Continental TV show, and I know we have Ballerina coming out next summer, as well. I’m not gonna ask about a John Wick 5 because we have like four of the best modern action movies ever. That’s great. But I was wondering if you would ever do one of the spinoffs if they came to you or if you had an idea for that.

STAHELSKI: Again, if something clicked with me, like, believe me, man, all the ideas that our group of writers are working on now, I swear to you, I like them all. If you told me tomorrow I had to do any one of them, I’d be like, “Cool, man. That’s a great way to spend a year.” They’re all cool ideas, and I have ideas on how I’d execute all of them. That’s what’s so fun about keeping it going. And we’re doing a John Wick TV show, which, again, keeps my head going. I would love to do a couple of episodes of the TV show just because I think I’d have fun trying things that we didn’t get to try in the films. I mean, absolutely. There’s some great ideas. And to work with a different cast and a different story structure without John Wick, it would be a fun challenge. But look, also, that being said, if Keanu called me tomorrow with an idea, or if I woke up tomorrow like, “Hey, let’s do…” you know, I’d be happy to jump back into John Wick, too, you know? Just has to be for the right reason.

John Wick: Chapter 4 is streaming on Starz in the U.S.

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