The Big Picture

Welcome to a new episode of Collider Ladies Night with
The Wasp
star Natalie Dormer.
Dormer discusses her journey in film and television thus far, including
The Tudors
,
The Hunger Games
, and
Game of Thrones
.
She also goes into detail on her collaboration with Naomie Harris for
The Wasp
, a hugely complex two-hander that demanded the co-stars embrace being adversarial while supporting one another.

While Natalie Dormer’s filmography does rock quite a few standout projects and roles, when she first started her journey in screen acting, she quickly recognized the fact that there weren’t enough “three-dimensional, fleshed-out female protagonists.” She explained, “You would be sent the script for ‘the girlfriend,’ ‘the wife,’ or ‘the antagonist,’ and the majority was so two-dimensional.” However, that’s changed considerably over the years. “Now when you’re scrolling on whatever platform you’re watching and seeing the amount of fleshed-out, three-dimensional, anti-heroic female protagonists … it’s just night and day.” It’s night and day, indeed. You want some proof? Go check out Dormer’s latest film, The Wasp.

Dormer stars opposite Naomie Harris in the stage-to-screen adaptation as two estranged school friends, Carla and Heather, who reunite and get involved in some rather diabolical events. As Dormer put it, they’re “women who are both capable of profound darkness and profound vulnerability,” a combination that consistently tests your nerves and allegiance all through the film.

With the twisted psychological thriller now playing in theaters, Dormer joined me for a Collider Ladies Night conversation to discuss some influential moments in her career that paved the way to embracing the opportunity to portray such an angry yet vulnerable character in The Wasp.

‘The Tudors’ Was an Ideal Starting Point for Natalie Dormer
Dormer played Anne Boleyn in the hit BBC series for two seasons.

Dormer began her journey with her heart set on becoming a successful stage actor. She’s done just that, but thanks to Lasse Hallström’s Casanova and the hit series The Tudors, the screen offered a wealth of opportunities as well. But, given she was a trained stage actor, acting for the camera required some adjustments. Fortunately for Dormer, the Casanova and Tudors sets wound up being prime places to learn.

“In three years of classical training, as us Brits say, of stage acting, I think I had one weekend of camera workshop. We’re not taught anything, or we weren’t … So,
Casanova
and
The Tudors
really was sort of my apprenticeship of learning about crew, what everyone does, the mechanics of a set.”

Dormer went on to explain why the Irish crew of The Tudors proved especially helpful.

“My apprenticeship was
The Tudors
, and I was very lucky to be working with an incredibly high-grade Irish crew that was used to shooting blockbuster movies, because it was that era when everything shot in Ireland. I mean, still so much shoots in Ireland.
The Irish are very candid and straight-talking, and I didn’t feel stupid asking a grip or a spark,‘What does that do?
What’s that for? Why is that?’ Culturally, they’re very open, candid, straight-talking people, so I think I really benefited from that those two years.”

Learning That Filmmaking Isn’t Just About the Art
“It is an organic beast with a sociopolitical aspect to it, so it can’t just be about the art.”
Image via HBO

In addition to learning on the job, Dormer also benefited from studying at Webber Douglas Academy of Dramatic Art, an institution that heavily emphasized that there’s no one right way to be an actor. She explained:

“Webber doesn’t exist anymore, which is really sad, but
I’ve had feedback over the years from people who have hired graduates of Webber, and the great thing about our training there was we were taught that there is no one way, there is no one path
. So, depending on what your director’s temperament is, or practitioner element is, or theater as well, obviously, because it’s still fundamentally theater training, whether you believe in inside out, outside in, whether you’re Meisner, Stanislavski, whatever the hell you are, know that every single job and every set of circumstances and everybody’s process is going to be different, and to be flexible to that. Yes, you have your inner truth and your own inner process, but you have to be accessible and open-minded to a different creative way of working every time. Webber engendered that in us, definitely. I’ve worn that, and I’ve had it commented on that it’s noticeable that you are open to that.”

One thing studying at Webber couldn’t prepare Dormer for? Industry politics. Here’s how she put it:

“The thing you can’t be prepped for is the politics. [Laughs] That’s the thing you have to learn on the spot. You learn about hierarchy and you learn about personality types and you learn about the dynamics of a set and who’s in charge and who’s fighting, and that everyone can only have so many battles per day or wins and compromises.
It is an organic beast with a sociopolitical aspect to it, so it can’t just be about the art.
Or, you’re naive if you think it’s just about the art. It has that element to it as well. It
is
an industry.”

While there’s still a multitude of industry frustrations that need to be fixed, Dormer made a point to highlight one particular thing that filmmakers have made great strides with over the course of her career. Here’s what Dormer said when asked what having a “meaningful voice” in film and television means to her:

“I’m sorry if this sounds like a stereotypical answer now, but if it does so, it’s because the conversation is so much more prevalent about it. It’s about three-dimensional, fleshed-out female protagonists. There was just such a dearth. There was just such a lack of them when I started out, truly. You would be sent the script for ‘the girlfriend,’ ‘the wife,’ or ‘the antagonist,’ and the majority was so two-dimensional. Over the course of my career, to watch that conversation grow and completely shift — now when you’re scrolling on whatever platform
you’re watching and seeing the amount of fleshed-out, three-dimensional, anti-heroic female protagonists
but also supporting roles,
it’s just night and day
. And that’s happened in
my
career time.”

The Delicate Balance Required to Nail a Two-Hander
Dormer likens ‘The Wasp’s story structure to playing a chess game.
Image via Shout! Studios

Not only did The Wasp afford Dormer the opportunity to tackle playing one of those “fleshed-out, three-dimensional, anti-heroic female protagonists,” but it challenged her to do it in the format of a two-hander.

“A two-hander is a very specific thing.
The last time I did a two-hander, I civil partnered the person.
[Laughs] The last time I did a two-hander was on stage with
Venus in Fur
when I met David [Oakes]. I wasn’t about to leave David for Naomie [Harris], but it is an intense process and you only have each other. You have your director, and Guillem [Morales] was incredible on
The Wasp
, but you only have each other, so there is that push-pull of the script and the power play, and then obviously, when you arrive on set, sometimes someone’s had a good day, someone’s had a bad day, someone’s had some bad news, someone’s got some family problems, or someone’s having an amazing day and they just had an amazing date night. It’s so interesting.
It’s such a unique experience doing a two-hander because it’s this chess game, which can be adversarial, but then you are also equally incredibly supportive of each other
because if you’re not, it doesn’t work. It literally falls down. So it’s finding that balance.”

In addition to the challenge of executing a heavy two-hander alongside Harris, Dormer was also responsible for crafting a character of great complexity, one capable of great love and great anger.

“She’s so angry! [Laughs] And I think in modern 21st society, us professional women who are trying to juggle family life with career demands,
we all do so much work at containing our frustration
. Carla is just like, ‘You are allowed to release the rage.’ But she’s very vulnerable, too. The thing Morgan said to me and had always said, and this is the call out for the movie, ‘
No goodies, no baddies. Two fully real, non-binary, multiple-layered women who are both capable of profound darkness and profound vulnerability.
’ They’re both traumatized, and they’re both trying to find a way through. I mean, what an opportunity as an actor.”

How Becoming a Mother Impacted Natalie Dormer’s Approach to ‘The Wasp’
“It completely changed my landscape.”

The Wasp doesn’t work without two lead actors who are able to inspire you to root for their characters at the appropriate times but without ever undermining the fact that both should be held accountable for their actions. In Dormer’s case, becoming a mother heavily influenced her approach to the role, and even inspired her to ask playwright and screenwriter Morgan Lloyd Malcolm to add lines to the film.

“

The Wasp
was the second film that I did in quick succession after becoming a mother for the first time and it completely changed my landscape.
I mean, of course, it changes everyone’s landscape to become a parent. It’s not a gender thing. But it’s a bottle of wine and another hour-long interview to analyze what happened to me, but on a molecular level, theme changed for me in becoming a mother.
There were a couple of extra lines that I asked Morgan for with Carla regarding the innocence of her children
because, without giving stuff away, Heather and Carla, Naomie and my character, both of them have unfairness done to them, injustice done to them as children, as innocent kids, and it changes them. Then Carla has an argument, ‘Whatever human being I am, don’t hurt my kids.’ I asked Morgan to push it and add a few more lines because I really felt like it could do with an extra punctuation, and she responded.”

Looking for even more from Dormer on her journey in the industry thus far, including her unforgettable run on Game of Thrones? Be sure to check out our full conversation in the video at the top of this article, or you can listen to the interview in podcast form below:

The Wasp hits theaters on August 30. Find showtimes near you below:

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