The Big Picture

Collider’s Steve Weintraub sits down with writer-director Sean Baker, Mikey Madison, and Yura Borisov for
Anora
at TIFF 2024.

Anora
is a fairy-tale-gone-wrong about a girl who gets whisked away on an epic and dangerous adventure.
Baker, Madison, and Borisov discuss learning new languages, training in dance, performing their own stunts, and filming an exhausting 28-minute sequence.

Sean Baker’s (Tangerine, The Florida Project) most recent film, Anora, has already made waves at Cannes, earning the Palme d’Or award, before making its Canadian premiere at this year’s Toronto International Film Festival. Certainly, this crew’s journey from script to screen to the festival circuit has been a whirlwind, but if you ask Baker about it, he’s blocked it all out.

To hear the writer-director describe it, Anora is a modern “fairy tale dream-come-true until it isn’t” about Ani, played by rising star Mikey Madison, a Brooklyn-based sex worker making ends meet. The daily grind is constant, the work never-ending, until she meets Ivan (Mark Eidelshtein), a customer who’s loaded and who offers Ani money in exchange for more time spent with him. The pair are swept up in a propulsive romance, but a bizarre reality comes crashing down on them when Ani discovers who Ivan really is.

While celebrating at TIFF, Baker and co-stars Madison and Yura Borisov stopped by Collider’s media studio at the Cinema Center at MARBL to sit down with Steve Weintraub and discuss their Neon dramedy and that astounding 28-minute sequence. Baker, who’s been mulling over this story for about two decades, discusses finally being able to pen the screenplay with his cast already in mind and including similar themes from his previous films. Madison talks about the preparation the role took, including learning Russian and training in dance, and she, Baker, and Borisov, who learned English for his role, break down how they approached filming a 28-minute-long, physically demanding sequence.

You can watch the interview in the video above or read the full transcript below.

‘Anora’ Is a Fairy Tale Love Story

COLLIDER: Your film is incredible. It’s easily one of my favorite films of this year. People are going to be blown away when they see your film. I know people have seen the trailer, but how have you been describing the film to friends and family?

SEAN BAKER: The film is about a young Russian American sex worker who, on a whim, marries the son of a billionaire, and it’s a fairy tale dream come true until it isn’t. That’s how I put it.

It’s almost like you’ve done that before. I definitely have to talk about your performance. I was mesmerized and blown away, and I’m so impressed with your work in this film. It’s fearless. Talk about getting ready for a role like this and what it was like reading the script and seeing what Sean had given you as a role.

MIKEY MADISON: Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I did as much preparation as I possibly could for this film. I had a lot of time to think about the character and also just to physically prepare, as well. I did some intensive dance training with a dancer so I could realistically look like a very seasoned stripper, and I learned Russian — not fully, but enough. I worked with a dialect coach. I really feel like I did my due diligence in preparing for this character because I wanted to really know her inside and out. So, I did a lot of everything that I could.

Image via Neon

Yura, talk a little bit about who you play in the film. I also want to commend you. You did such fantastic work in this, and there are so many great scenes between the two of you.

YURA BORISOV: My preparation was very serious, too, because I learned English and I did a lot of research on lots of sex clubs for understanding what I had to do. Finally, I understood and started.

Talk a little bit about where the idea came from. There’s a throughline in all of your work about demystifying sex work and not judging people, so can you also talk about that?

BAKER: Sure. Karren Karagulian, who plays Toros in the film, one of Ivan’s babysitters, I guess you could say, we go way back — he’s been in all of my films. We were talking about telling a story in the Russian American community in Brighton Beach and Coney Island for almost close to 20 years now. We just had to find the story. Then I started making films about sex workers, and it just seemed right that we could meld those worlds. When we finally figured out the basic plot, it was interesting this time around because my actors were attached before I wrote the screenplay and it really helped because I was able to picture Mikey in the role of Ani, picture Yura in the role of Igor, and Kerren Karagulian as Toros as I was writing these characters and flushing them out.

MADISON: I read the script after committing to the role and meeting him and us having communication for a long time. But when I did finally read the script, I was totally blown away. It exceeded any possible expectations that I had. I was sitting there with my agent and manager, we were all reading it, and I was powering through the script because I was trying to just get it as quickly as I could into my brain. It was a really exciting day because I had been eagerly awaiting it for a long time. It was really special.

One of the things about the film is as you’re watching it, it just feels like you’re in the room with these people. It feels real. How much is all of that on the page and the script, and how much are you actually finding some moments when you’re in the setup and figuring out the shot?

BAKER: Well, because I don’t know Russian and Armenian, we had to have a full-length screenplay, and we couldn’t deviate much, especially when the dialogue was in English. However, I always encourage improvisation when I can figure out a way of doing it. My incredible actors have that gift of comedic improvisation. I was blessed. And so, they brought so many wonderful lines to the table, and we were all very collaborative in terms of even further fleshing out the story and developing while we were shooting even though we had started with a full-length screenplay.

Sean Baker Could Rest Easy Knowing He Was Capturing Gold With ‘Anora’
Image via Photagonist

You see the shooting schedule in front of you — what day do you have circled in terms of, “I can’t wait to film this,” and what day do you have circled in terms of, “How the F are we gonna film this?”

BAKER: I’m always pushing everything back because I want more time to prep, more time to prep, so I’m never like, “I can’t wait.” [Laughs] So, that first part is not relevant to the way I make films. But the second part — “How are we gonna do this?” — Wow. So many big, big scenes because we were dealing with this tiny budget, but also because I wanted to see, during the scenes that required physicality and stunts, if my actors could do it, and they wanted to do it, and they did do it. So, that was amazing to see some of those scenes that I was worried about capturing being completely mastered by these wonderful actors, who — I’m so sorry, what the fuck am I talking about?

MADISON: It’s our first interview of the day!

BAKER: To tell you the truth, I black out production.

MADISON: He does.

BAKER: I don’t really remember it until years later, and they remind me what happened. So it’s hard for me to talk about the making of these movies because I don’t remember how they were made.

I’ve interviewed Joaquin Phoenix, and I’ve asked him about the way he works, and one of the things he said to me that I just couldn’t believe was, he said, “I love it when I’m on set, and I arrive in the morning, and we start filming and the next thing I know it’s lunch. I’ve just disappeared into the role.” He just forgets, and I’m like, “Oh my god, that’s amazing to be that in the moment.”

BAKER: The wonderful thing about this production was that every night I went to sleep with a smile on my face knowing that we just captured gold, and it was always because my actors were just giving me so much. So, that was really nice, every night saying, “Okay, I know this is rough, and I know tomorrow is gonna be tough, but tonight I can sleep.”

Mikey, what day did you have circled in terms of what you can’t wait to film, and was there any day that you were like, “How the F are we gonna film this?”

MADISON: I was really excited to get to the gentleman’s club because I was just excited about being around the women and exploring my character through her work. I think we filmed a few days there, and then we had a break, and then we went back. I was really excited to get back because I loved the energy of the club and what everyone was bringing to it. I was excited about that. Then I would say the last scene of the whole film was one that I would look at the schedule, flip a couple of weeks, and I would see it, and my stomach would drop a little bit. I was like, “Okay, well, I have three weeks,” and then it was like two weeks, and then it was one. I put a lot of pressure on myself for that specific scene. Then, when we finally finished it, it was like a total weight off of my shoulders a little bit.

Image via Photagonist

BORISOV: I just wanted to try to help Sean and Mikey because my goal was making a good movie. Every day, Sean says, he was sleeping with a smile — I can’t imagine that he slept during this shoot because every morning he came back like, “I changed everything. Let’s try maybe something new.” It was every day, every morning. And everyday I asked Mikey, “How are you?” And she answered, “I’m okay!” I understand that if you’re okay, I’m okay. [Laughs] I just tried to help them because it’s simpler for me than for them.

As I said at the beginning of this interview, I’ve seen a lot of movies this year, and I rarely say favorites, but you’re definitely one of my favorites of the year. When did the three of you realize, “Oh, wait a minute, this might be something special?”

MADISON: I think while we were filming I knew that it was something special to me and to Sean and to the rest of our cast and crew. So, regardless of an audience’s perception of it being special to them, I already felt that it was special.

BAKER: Yeah, very early on, about a week in, when I saw everything coming together. Because, again, I worked with just the perfect cast and the perfect crew. Everybody was working their butts off to make this happen. I saw that happening in the first week. I remember having a meeting with Mikey, and I said, “Mikey, I think we’re gonna be making somebody’s favorite film. At least one person, it’s gonna be their favorite film.”

BORISOV: I think that we are inside the film; we don’t know what it is. You can tell us what it is because we are just driving this film inside the car.

Image via Photagonist

Sure, I’ll tell you: it’s fantastic. Then again, Cannes also seemed to like it. I heard it did well there.

BAKER: Yes, that was an incredible experience. We went in not expecting a thing, quite honestly, just very honored to be in competition there, and walked away with dreams coming true.

I was there, there were incredible movies there. Three of my favorite films of the year premiered there. It was a great year.

BAKER: We were in great company. Incredible company.

I love talking about the editing process because it’s where it all comes together. In the editing room, how did the film change in ways you didn’t expect, maybe after a friends and family screening?

BAKER: We don’t really do test screenings.

You don’t show your friends or anybody?

BAKER: Nope. Only my two producers. That’s it. I really don’t believe in test screenings. We make our films for us, and if you don’t like it, I’m sorry. We’re not going to be making films with the lowest common denominator. There’s no reason to take other people’s notes and water down the vision.

I completely respect that, but I also think that sometimes, and again, I’m not a director, you might think this storyline completely works, but if you show it to your producers, I’m sure someone would say something to you.

BAKER: Of course. There’s a back-and-forth. It’s usually about running time, and we’re usually all on the same page about what makes sense and what doesn’t. I’m talking about my producers, Alex Coco and Samantha Quan. And then, of course, there’s getting minor notes later on from my wonderful distributors and film sales company, Film Nation, Neon, Elevation, and just hearing notes. But we’re already pretty much in a locked place.

I edit in order. I don’t do an assembled cut. I start from the beginning and edit chronologically, and see the film flesh out that way in front of me over the course of a year. So I don’t even know if I’ve made a good movie until the last day of editing. It’s very stressful, but it’s an organic process that I have to take upon myself each time. I do communicate a lot with my actors. I give them updates and everything. It still remains collaborative, even in the editing.

For the two of you, when you’re in the inside the belly of the beast, and you see everything you’re filming, you don’t really know what Sean’s gonna select in terms of what takes or which angle. What was it like for both of you watching the film for the first time? What was your emotional reaction when it ended?

MADISON: It had been such an intense build-up to watching it for the first time. I was really anxious, and I almost feel like I was putting it off a little bit — not because I didn’t want to see it, but because I was scared in some way that I would have, like, effed up the movie. I don’t know. But when I finally watched it, it was very surreal for me, a little bit shocking. I had forgotten all that I did for the character. Then I was like, “I’m excited to see it for a second time so that I can see it from more of an audience perspective,” because I was kind of just watching it as an actor. But I am so in love with the movie, and it’s one of the most special projects I’ve ever been a part of, if not the most special. I just continued to be blown away by Sean’s work and my fellow actors. It’s strange, though, to watch yourself for the first time and to hope that I did my due diligence, that I did my job.

I can’t imagine, honestly.

BORISOV: For me and for us, this film is like our child. Of course, I love it. When we finished the Cannes premiere, the first time I saw the movie, I was like, “I’m so happy! I love this, absolutely.” And I just started to look at everybody to figure out, “What do you feel? How was it?” And they started to get emotional, and I understood, “Okay, maybe this worked.”

‘Anora’s 28-Minute Sequence Disturbed the Crew
Image via Photagonist

There’s a 28-minute sequence in this film that is just jaw-dropping in terms of the intensity, the acting, the performances, everything about it. It’s just A-fucking-plus. Talk a little bit about doing that sequence.

BAKER: I’m gonna have to spoil a little bit — it’s okay. It’s a real-time home invasion scene that we wanted to play out in real time to really put the audience in the position that Ani is in, in this very scary situation, and live in it. So it was all about choreography and was very controlled, calculative. It was really just about planning because we were on a very low budget. But we were able to carve out seven to eight days to be able to shoot this scene. Everybody was on fire. The actors were incredible. We just had to shot-list it and really make sure that we were covering ourselves and doing it safely. They did their own stunts. It was really impressive to watch. Also, during this very, very stressful and tense section of the film set piece, we also wanted to inject humor. So there was that constant balance of danger, but then suddenly a laugh, danger, and then laugh. That was that balancing act that we were attempting.

MADISON: To film something like that, it was very intense, fun, absolutely crazy to be fighting Yura like that, with all of my possible strength. You really don’t know what it’s going to feel like or what it’s going to be until they call action, and you’re not just rehearsing at half speed, you’re really filming that kind of scene. Yura’s always chasing me and grabbing me. It was a very unique experience and it was fun. I love doing as many stunts as I possibly can, and on this film, I think it was really important for me that you could see my face and that, also, as an actor, I know what it feels like to go through all of those things. It was a very unique experience.

Image via Photagonist

BORISOV: Again, it was seven or eight days, and Sean, in the morning, was like, “Okay, guys, we changed everything again. Let’s do it another way.” “Okay, what do we have to do?” “Let’s try this!” [Laughs] And Mikey, she’s super professional because she turned it on in, like, one second. I need some time for preparation. I’m trying to understand, “Okay, we’re doing this and this…” And Mikey’s like, “Yeah, I’m ready. We can start.” [Screams] And I’m just like, “Okay! I’m in!” This was my experience during these seven or eight days.

BAKER: It was a huge mansion but you could hear her screaming in every corner of the entire home.

MADISON: Mark [Eidelshtein] was taking a nap during some of those scenes. I was like, “You were here the whole time while we were filming these crazy scenes?” He was like, “Yeah, I was sleeping upstairs.”

BAKER: We had some of our crew on the other side of the house hearing it and being very disturbed by it. And I was like, “Okay, it’s working. They’re disturbed by it.”

Special thanks to this year’s partners of the Cinema Center x Collider Studio at TIFF 2024 including presenting Sponsor Range Rover Sport as well as supporting sponsors Peoples Group financial services, poppi soda, Don Julio Tequila, Legend Water and our venue host partner Marbl Toronto. And also Roxstar Entertainment, our event producing partner and Photagonist Canada for the photo and video services.