The Big Picture

An intimacy coordinator ensures open communication and consent during intimate scenes, working with the whole production, not just the cast. Sex Education addresses a wide range of topics and encourages open communication in relationships, making it a fresh and important show. The role of an intimacy coordinator is misunderstood by some, but it is a collaborative and creative process that aims to enhance storytelling while keeping actors safe and comfortable.

The following interview contains light spoilers for Sex Education Season 4. The bittersweet end of the Netflix series Sex Education is now upon us as these horny teens have now grown into full on adults ready to take on the world. Integral to this fourth and final season was the work of intimacy coordinator David Thackeray who sat down for a conversation about his work, the creative value to what he does, and some of his favorite moments working on this show that he must now bid farewell to. As one more spoiler warning, there is some discussion of some key moments that take place towards the end.

COLLIDER: There’s kind of a, not misconception, but I don’t think a full understanding that people have about what an intimacy coordinator is. And so I wanted to ask you to start, in your own words, what is your day-to-day like on set working?

DAVID THACKERAY: Yeah, so I mean an intimacy coordinator allows open communication and transparency when working with intimate content, and that’s for the whole production. That’s not just for the cast. The fundamental of what we do is to make sure there’s consent and boundaries that exist and work in these moments that a conversation is taking place. Day to day, I would say 80% is pre-production, so you’re finding out the director’s vision and hearing how they want to shoot these moments. I’m asking why these moments exist or how does it help the character’s journey move forward or the story of the whole series. And then I’m able to talk to the artist to hear any kind of concerns, anything I can put in place to make sure they feel comfortable on the day. And then on the day is very much it’s agreement of consent and touch. We mark through where they’re happy to be touched and more importantly where they’re not.

And then it’s the choreography beat by beat marking through very much like a dance and creating these positions where you could have about this much space between them and it still looks believable and questions that are coming up very much like why this position? What position tells this story the best? Or how does this scene finish? Do we reach climax or not? So the actors are not just going on forever and going, are they ever going to call cut? It’s to make sure there’s a closed set as well, so making sure there’s limited people on there on the day. But yeah, I mean an intimacy coordinator has a process where you can find so much more detail as well with these scenes, which you definitely couldn’t find a few years ago. And at the same time, you’ve got actors who feel comfortable and safe at the same time.

When it comes to a show like Sex Education, is there anything that you specifically think people would be surprised to learn about with a show like this? Because it’s obviously a lot about sex, but it’s also about people and relationships and emotions and aspirations and dreams and fears. What kind of is the big takeaway that you think people would be surprised to know about with something like this?

I honestly think literally every kind of lesson that you get from [Sex Education] is fresh and new, or at least needs to be spoken, brought up or shown within this series because then we’re talking about it or at least other people are talking about it. I think a big thing to take away from it is that you should talk to people, have that open communication, relationships of trust and open communication. It’s just been a through line for each season, to be honest.

Image via Netflix

I won’t call you then the Otis of real life, but to some degree there’s kind of that interesting echo of you’re allowing people to get into more of the creative process and exploration. I won’t name the show, but there was a recent show that kind of implied that an intimacy coordinator stifles that creative process or is a stick in the mud, but it’s the opposite. It’s kind of just working together as professionals to better tell this story. What kind of is your feeling, especially since this is the last season of this show, what is the feeling of this kind of coming to a close?

It’s so interesting you brought up that other moment as well because that really did my head in. [laughs]

Really. Had you seen that?

Yeah, of course. Of course. It annoyed me. I was like, come on, that’s not nice. It’s such a silly thing. It’s another misconception of people who think you are the police or you’re an insurance policy. It’s just so wrong or they’ve just worked with not a very good intimacy coordinator. It’s a very collaborative experience and you want to get the best out of everything really. So yeah, I mean for this show I’m going to miss it a lot. I didn’t realize it was the end until everyone else knew as well. But yeah, working on this since season two, it’s been an absolute pleasure and joy to work with the same cast for so many years. They learned this process very much when it was being created. So yeah, it’s sad, but also super excited for their future and their other work.

When it comes to this season in particular, you’ve got to kind of see them grow as actors just as we’ve seen them grow as characters. Was there any particular scene that you enjoyed working with them on or that you felt like was a real memorable takeaway?

Of course. I mean, this season for me, I worked a lot with Maeve and Otis, so Emma and Asa, and to be able to really bookend that journey has just, it is a pleasure to work with them both. They’re so professional and so on when it comes to the intimate scenes and they’re asking the questions from how we were in season two to where we are now. They’re like, ‘yeah, maybe this position’ or ‘that doesn’t make sense for this moment,’ especially for those two moments of where it’s kind of stop and start and it doesn’t really go anywhere, but you could say they’re quite similar. So it’s about trying to find a difference in that where, how far in this relationship are we? So yeah, I mean working with them too this season, it’s a joy.

Image via Netflix

When you’re talking about that relationship between Maeve and Otis, I don’t want to bring you into the chaos of the internet talking about sex scenes in general, but there’s kind of this recurring thing where people are like, sex scenes make me uncomfortable. They don’t “advance the plot,” they don’t serve a purpose. But all of the things you’re talking about when people are intimate and close together, even in the phone sex scene, that’s a transformative moment for them as characters. It serves a purpose in the story. It’s not just you want to see sex, it’s you want to understand how these people are feeling. When it comes to what you hope people will take away from this show and your work, what is it that you would want to say about sex, not just as sex, but sex as storytelling, as emotion, as feeling and all these things?

I mean, it is literally the reason for an intimacy coordinator. You want to make sure these scenes exist for a reason. If it doesn’t do anything, if it’s literally for the audience’s eyes, we just zoom in on a bum or something like that. I’d be questioning why are we doing that? [Laughs] I mean, that’s such a great thing you just said there about the phone sex and things like that. What that does for the story is huge. It tells us a lot about them trying to find closeness and intimacy from a long distance relationship. What it does for us, as an audience, is suddenly we’re talking about that. How does a long distance relationship work? What’s the hurdles there that people need to go through or explore and especially as they’re young adults character wise. So it’s even more heightened for them. It’s like intimacy is so new, that kind of context. So yeah, I mean Sex Education is all about making sure the intimacy is for a reason. It’s literally the show.

Was there anything, I don’t want to say was there a challenge, but was there anything that you had the joy to be able to work through something that was maybe not stuck, but you were trying to find out the right way to choreograph something that then led to a breakthrough in the story or in this season? Was there anything that you’ve kind of seen your work pay off in some way?

I think the pressure of that final scene, maybe the pressure of that to get that right, and with both those artists and the director. The director did such a great job. Amazing. With that kind of pressure and the edit, I think it is done really, really well. So seeing that and going, ‘oh phew its pretty good. We’ve done great.’ So yeah, I’m proud of that and I hope people see the time and effort that took.

I also was going to say with all these things about emotion, there’s also humor to all of these things. Sex is funny and intimacy can be kind of funny. Not laughing at people, but sort of being like, oh boy, we’ve all been there. That’s something I was curious then, do you get to laugh with everyone and joke about things and still have that kind of be part of it, but then be serious and get down to business when it comes to it?

Without a doubt. I mean, obviously you’re gauging how the artists are feeling and the crew as well, but of course there’s been times where we’re all just cracking up. And I look back at the montage in season three and Ben and myself and the artists we’re trying to find other ways of making it funny as well. Could they have sex on a treadmill or something like that? Or what about if they have sex on a drum kit? How would that work? And it’s a great fun, what a great show to work on. And as an intimacy coordinator, it’s just a huge lesson for me as well, because I’m having to work out all different kinds of simulated sex moments and nudity on how is this going to work that’s never been seen or shown before.

Image via Netflix

With what you’re talking about, it almost makes me think of where, when people talk about writing a character, you want it to feel natural, but also every single thing has to be planned out. A sex scene choreographing it out, every single thing has to kind of be planned, but then it has to feel organic and natural. I don’t want to say is that a challenge, but how do you find that balance between those two elements?

Of course, and I mean this is very much a fear from directors or some actors who may have already found their process of working with these kind of scenes. They’re concerned about being blocked or it’s going to look like mechanical. It’s not the case, especially, there’s still some freedom within it as well. If you’ve already done the agreement of consent and touch, you’ve done a scan of the body, there’s still moments of going, ‘oh, at that point I felt like I could brush the hair there,’ or ‘I felt this moment that it heats up a bit more.’ After each cut we’re exploring this, actually let’s change this bit up here. As long as it’s nothing to do with suddenly showing more nudity or completely changing the scene. But once you go over the choreography more than once, you get it into your bodies very much like a dance or a fight. That’s why I find it funny when people are like, ‘oh, it is just going to get in the way and stuff.’ You wouldn’t give two artists some swords and say, ‘right off you go, really stab him.’ [Laughs]

It’s about working with professionals on something that is fun and enjoyable, but then does need to be taken seriously and blocked out and figured out.

We need to know where we start and what happens in the middle and where we end. We need to have those boundaries. Otherwise, it’s just free fall. No one knows where to begin or how to begin or if they can begin. I mean, especially with intimacy as well, you’ve got that horrible question of going, ‘oh, did I go too far? Should I not touch that person there?’ And you don’t want that. You don’t want anyone to go away feeling guilty or shame or anything like that.

I think maybe favorite is the wrong word, but was there any particularly fulfilling or one scene that you were looking back or even a handful of scenes that you feel like were the ones that you really were like, yes, that was the one I’ll remember the most from Sex Education.

I mean, there’s loads just go flooding through.

There are a lot of them.

Yeah, there’s loads and there’s some great moments for all of them. For me, for this season, will be that final simulated sex scene that will always go, ‘I’m so glad we got to do that.’ It makes complete sense for their character journey. I think comedy wise, probably the caravan scene with Cynthia and Jeffrey with the cat exploding, I think that’s just brilliant.

That one was mean. That was also a rough one. Who came up with the idea for the cat?

I dunno. I mean that would be the writer’s team. That’d be Laurie Nunn. I just think it’s brilliant. So that for me, and then the montage for season three was just epic. We’ve shot that for six, seven months, on and off.

Image via Netflix

You’ve worked on things like Heartstopper and The Crown. I don’t know if you’re allowed to say what specifically you’re doing, but is this something that you’re continuing to do or are there other projects when it comes to telling stories and emotions via intimacy and sex that you’re working on right now?

That’s a good question. I mean, yes, I can’t really say what it is, but I mean, I think Sex Education is pretty unique. I’ll be interested to see if anything pops up similar to this. I reckon it’s going to be a while.

Yeah, it is definitely one of a kind. I was curious, what do you view as the future of intimacy coordinators? Do you think there’s still an industry that needs to have more of them? Do you think there’s still things that you’re learning or that your colleagues are learning as you’re doing this more and more?

Without a doubt. We are always in communication with other intimacy coordinators. We’re all trying to talk to because you need to make sure your process is up to date. Or if someone goes, ‘oh, I used this the other day and it really worked,’ and you’re like, ‘great, I’m going to try that.’ So yeah, we’re a hundred percent keeping in contact over process. I know a lot of other countries as well are also using intimacy coordinators now, which is great. I think we need to keep trying to make sure that that is happening. I think also just coming back to the fundamental, what this role is and what the process is, and it is a creative one. It’s not an insurance policy. Consent and boundaries are the forefront of it, and it’s still fun and making sure it is still fun for people.

All episodes of Sex Education are now streaming on Netflix.