The Big Picture

Apple TV’s Slow Horses returns to Slough House with Season 3. Producer and showrunner Will Smith discusses the show’s success, staying true to the source material, and the possibility of future seasons and spinoffs. Smith takes a look at the series’ success and what he’s learned as a co-writer for the show since Season 1.

The wait is finally over for fans of Apple TV’s espionage series, Slow Horses. The show, based on the book series by Mick Herron, is rolling out Season 3 and returning to Slough House, in spite of Jackson Lamb’s sour attitude.

Academy Award-winner Gary Oldman takes on his team of slow horses and plenty of snacks again in Season 3, where we pick back up with his team of misfit MI5 agents. The series opens with a large-scale sequence set in Istanbul, far from the gloom of Slough House, reminding fans that this is a show about secret intelligence and top-level government defense (just not Lamb’s team). Back at the office, however, River Cartwright (Jack Lowden) is still dead set on proving himself, Louisa (Rosalind Eleazar) is mourning the death of Min (Dustin Demri-Burns), and the team is just overall glum. Especially when one of them gets taken hostage.

In an interview with Collider’s Steve Weintraub, producer and showrunner Will Smith takes a look at the series’ success and what he’s learned as a co-writer for the show since Season 1. Smith talks about the influence of shows like The Sopranos and The Shield, staying true to Herron’s original source material, this season’s larger scale (and budget), and when we’ll get to see Season 4. He also talks about future seasons, which novels or novellas Apple is looking to adapt, and expanding the Slough House Universe with spinoff ideas. Check it all out in the full transcript below.

Slow Horses Follows a team of British intelligence agents who serve as a dumping ground department of MI5 due to their career-ending mistakes. Release Date April 1, 2022 Genres Drama Rating TV-MA Seasons 3

Read Our ‘Slow Horses’ Season 3 Review

COLLIDER: I’m a huge fan of Slow Horses and Season 3 is awesome. I have to start with the most important question right up front, which is how many times have you gotten a better table at a restaurant because they think you are someone else?

WILL SMITH: [Laughs] Well, I probably don’t try and go to the same restaurants as him. I should try it in some fancier places. The first season came out, I think, just around the time of the slap, so it was very confusing online. My Twitter mentions were a complete mess of, “How dare you? You’re a monster. I’m not watching your show.” “No, it’s not the same guy.” I’m just like, “What?” [Laughs]

Yeah, if you had an assistant call a restaurant, you could probably do something.

‘Slow Horses’ Positive Reception
Image via Apple TV+

You never know how something is going to be received, because I’ve seen great stuff that people don’t like, but universally, people are raving about Slow Horses. What has it been like for you being involved in something where the critics and the fans all love it?

SMITH: Well, it’s incredible. An honest answer is, I’m so kind of head-down on the work that I haven’t really had time to absorb that, and also because we’re sort of making it in advance. One comes out, we’re on to the next one, so there isn’t the time to take that moment. Also, I’m very focused on not dropping the ball and just making sure that each season can be as good as the last, or better than the last, and that we’re not repeating ourselves at all – all the kinds of pressures that come with success. And I get very paranoid about reading reviews and believing them. I know it’s all going well, so I’m looking at it like I’m looking at a Magic Eye picture and then just sort of try and get on with things.

But it’s pretty wonderful to know that people are enjoying it as much as I enjoy working on it, as does everyone. I can certainly say that I’m sure there are some people who don’t like it, but I haven’t met anyone who ever said, “Yeah, I watched the first ep. It was all right. I must get back to it.” People tend to say, “I watched it and I couldn’t stop and I raced through it,” and, “When’s the next one? I love it and I’ve rewatched it.” That’s the kind of response you get, which is really incredible. I just don’t want to let people down. [Laughs] That’s my response, it’s like, “Oh, god…”

I totally get it. I’ll tell you, I was watching Season 3 and I finished Episode 4 pretty late at night, and I aimed to go to sleep after that episode. Then, it ends, and I’m like, “Well, I guess I got to watch the next one,” and then that ends, and I’m like, “Well, fuck, I’m staying up, aren’t I?”

SMITH: Oh god! It was a proper binge.

I had no choice because each episode ends in a way that I needed to watch the next one.

SMITH: That’s really exciting. Some people I know go, “I’m not watching it until it’s all out so I can watch it all.” But that also means you’ve got the great way Apple drops the first two and then week by week you will have that [gasps] that I love as a viewer. I can still remember getting to the end of The Shield Season 5 and being like, “Oh my god, I can’t believe that just happened. I can’t wait another year for that.” And I love it when I feel like that, so to hear that you’re feeling like that is fantastic.

Is ‘Slow Horses’ a Workplace Comedy?

Do you consider Slow Horses a workplace comedy?

SMITH: Yes. I think it probably is. And certainly, Mick Herron has talked about what he wanted to do was put office politics into the spy genre. It’s definitely got that element. In terms of, broadly, is it a drama or a comedy, I think I’d say it’s a drama because Mick’s books are in the thriller section of the bookshop, but they’re really funny; they’re not comedy books there. So, I think the comedy’s always got to feel natural or organic and earned. It can’t feel like you’re just throwing in jokes for the sake of it. But yeah, it is at points. But then, the great American shows, which for me are still incredible works of art that I think about and go back to to this day are like The Sopranos, The Wire, and The Shield. Those are just incredible. If you rewatch the scenes with Tony Soprano and his mum, on the page that could read like a sitcom. He had an incredible facility for comedy, she’s hilarious in it. It’s a drama, but it’s funny and it feels real in those scenes. That’s what I really wanna get with Slow Horses is that it can do all those things and you still feel a connection to the characters.

How did you decide on six-episode seasons? Was this an Apple thing or a you thing?

SMITH: That was actually Graham Yost, an American exec… You kind of have to sort of pad it and stretch it. I think the stories in the books give us about four eps with some great episode endings and then it’s about building out from that. I think if you make it longer, it becomes something else. We really want to remain true to, certainly, the spirit of the books and the broad story. We try to keep as much as we can and then where we have to change it, we change it, and where we have to build, we build. But we’re always trying to keep it in Mick’s world and kind of be true to that.

Image via Apple TV+

What did you learn making the first two seasons that helped you make Seasons 3 and 4?

SMITH: I think it’s probably just the experience of working with the cast and the crew, a lot of whom are returning. There’s a lot of investment from the crew in the show as well as the cast. And just getting used to the rhythms – it’s something I learnt a lot from working with Amando Iannucci, is sort of writing to the actors and just tuning into how they’re doing it and what they want, what they like, how to challenge them. I think it’s the relationship with the actors that you get to know. As I’m writing it, it’s like, “I know how Gary will say that.” Not to say that I make him say it in a way that I wouldn’t say it, but I know how he’ll have fun with it. You start to know what they want.

I think it’s that and also being confident with the tone, which never worried me because, like I say, the mix of comedy and drama, I was like, “Well Mick did that in the books. It works in the books. They’re thrillers, but they’re funny. It doesn’t confuse the readers, so we don’t have to really worry about that.” And also, having worked with Armando and having some familiarity with trying to work in that sort of comedy-drama blend, I thought, “We’ll be fine on that.” But seeing it work, then you go, “Okay, we’re alright. We’re okay. That’s not something we have to stress about. We know what the voice of the show is and what the feel of it is.” So, it’s just that it’s a bit of wind in your sails.

Season 3 has a lot of action. Action costs money. Did Apple give you more money to make Season 3 than the other two?

SMITH: I genuinely don’t know the answer to that because I don’t get involved in the figures of that. But actually, thinking about it, I would imagine so, but just because the scale of it did go up. We go to Istanbul, we have the incredible facility set, which I have to stress is a set, not a location. It’s a set designed and built by the incredible designer, Choi Ho Man, and dressed by Cameron. I just feel terrible in some ways because people will watch that and not know it’s a set because they did their job so well you don’t know they did their job. So, all of that, we wanted to have that step up in scale because it’s in the books, there’s that big shoot out there, and we sort of built on that. In the series, it goes across like two-and-a-half episodes pretty much.

But it was also important, amongst that action, not to lose the tone and still have the humor and the characters behaving like the characters and not feel like you’re going into, “It’s now the action sequence.” You still wanted it to feel like it’s the Slow Horses action sequence. Mick’s got a lot of experience in action and comedy and drama, and he totally got the tone of the show to kind of lift it all up and do it on that scale but still make it feel like the show. He completely carried it off, so all praise to him.

When Are We Getting ‘Slow Horses’ Season 4?

I watched the preview for Season 4 at the end of Season 3, so I need to ask you, when will I be able to watch Season 4? Has Apple told you? Is it like March, April, May, June? Somewhere there?

SMITH: They haven’t told me. They genuinely haven’t told me. I can’t imagine it would be longer than a year. The longest you’d have to wait would be a year.

Oh, I would be upset if I had to wait a year for Season 4. That’s not acceptable.

SMITH: [Laughs] That’s not acceptable? I’ll tell them.

That will not work for me. You need to talk to them. So, what is the status of Seasons 5 through 8? Let’s not even go six. Let’s go [Seasons] 5 through 8.

SMITH: All I can say is Mick is working on the ninth book, and Gary has openly said he’d happily keep doing this for the rest of his career. So, we just have to cross our fingers that everything else lines up in the equation. The material’s there and the lead actor wants to do it.

Gary told me, he literally said, “If this is all I do for the rest of my career, I’m okay. This is all I want to do.” And I’m okay with that.

SMITH: Gary is an absolute marvel. It’s such a joy to watch him. This sounds really weird, but when I’m on the set and I’m at the monitors, I’m watching it like a fan because they’re so good, it’s just there. And that’s before we cut it and put the music on. I’m watching the show. And the other execs took the piss out of me one time when we were in the edit and I started laughing at the scene and then I was kind of gasping at the shocking bits, and they were like, “Oh, you’re laughing at your own work there, are you?” But I genuinely wasn’t. I said, “No, I’m not. I’m laughing at Jackson.” I don’t even think of it as what I’ve written or my adaptation of what Mick has written or anything. I’m not even thinking of it as Gary. I’m watching the characters. It’s a bizarre thing but it just comes alive for me when I watch them do it in a way that I feel detached from it and they’re just doing it.

Image via Apple TV+

Sure. So, since you don’t want to talk about [Seasons] 5 to 8, how is the adaptation of London Rules coming along?

SMITH: [Laughs]

Listen, I already know the way it works and any good show is working on the next season, writing the next season because if it does get green lit then you need to be able to start shooting as quickly as possible.

SMITH: That is industry standard practice.

The Slough House Universe

Yes, exactly. You’ve been following the book releases pretty much for Seasons 1 through 4. My question is, if you were to make Season 6, hypothetically, which I know you will, are you going with The Drop or is it gonna be Joe Country because one of them is like a novella?

SMITH: We sort of have these perennial discussions about using the material from the novella because the novellas are great. There’s absolutely no discussions with Apple about this or See-Saw, the production company. This is just me talking out loud that I think the novellas would make great standalones if anybody wanted to do them at some point because they do feed into the books. That’s great you’re aware of them. There’s just such a rich world that Mick’s created that I can’t imagine that they won’t want to do absolutely everything he’s written at some point, including all the other books he’s done.

That’s the other thing because there are more books, but then there’s the short story… There’s a lot of material there. Have you guys actually discussed at all doing a spinoff? Let me give you an example, Invincible on Prime Video did a spinoff to tide people over during this long break between seasons, so my question is have you guys discussed at all doing a one-off that maybe features other characters, not just Jackson, in between seasons?

SMITH: No. I remember that Gary and I were talking at one point, and he had this idea, which I love him for doing this — it’s not gonna happen [laughs], I’d love it to happen — it was the Slough House Advent Calendar. We’d do 25 little short films, and over Christmas you’d release little vignettes, and we were like, “Oh, we could do one with Min and it’s a flashback and he’s putting up the decorations and whatever.” It was only little scenes and stuff. So, we had that dream that we’d do that, but I don’t know if that will happen. There’s so much you could do. I really love the new book, The Secret Hours, but how far are you into the books?

I have not read any of the recent ones.

SMITH: Oh okay, you might be able to jump ahead to The Secret Hours, but The Secret Hours does a really fun thing where he flashes back. It starts as a standalone, and then he’s very clever, he doesn’t use any of the names of the people that he uses from the other books, but you absolutely know it’s them. It’s a really lovely trick. So look, there’s a Slough House Universe there to be made.

Gary Oldman’s Favorite Part of Playing Jackson Lamb

One of the things about the show is I could watch an entire episode of Gary Oldman as Jackson just eating because he’s so brilliant at the scenes where he’s eating. In the new season, I’m not gonna say if he’s eating or not, but let’s just assume he is; how much is that in the script? How much does Gary like to add? Because he told me he loves eating on the show.

SMITH: Yeah, we put it in. I’ve got one story actually that’s in addition to that, but yeah, the noodles were in there because we were like, “What’s the most disgusting thing for him to eat? It’s gonna be noodles.” Then there were the chips in that one, as well, and, boy, does he commit? I don’t know how many bowls of noodles he had that day… and then there were definitely about 10 ice creams at the end of this one. So, I’m always thinking, “What food?”

But there was one time he had a scene with Chris Chung, who plays Ho, who I absolutely love. I can’t remember what Ho was doing, but Chris was like, “I’m gonna have some biscuits,” and he was doing something with the biscuits and taking them apart and putting them together to make a double filling or something. We ran it, and then Gary just looked around, and he went, “Get me a sandwich!” [Laughs] He was like, “If he’s eating, I’m eating.” So, they had a food-off.

I remember the scene. It’s like in the middle of Season 3.

SMITH: That one was added in. The sandwich was added in by Gary on the day, but the other ones we planned.

How has the show changed in the editing room in ways you didn’t expect going in? Have you made any tweaks as a result of seeing the footage, like, “Oh, wait a minute, it would be better like this…?”

SMITH: Yeah, there’s stuff. We always have space for pick-up, so if we’re like, “Oh, the story isn’t quite clear,” or, “Oh, we’re missing the Slow Horses there,” there’s stuff like that. What I find really interesting about it is, and I’ve listened to other people talk about this, I remember Shawn Ryan being very interesting about this on The Shield, where you have these scenes and you feel you’re laying out the story so the audience have got it all, and then when you put it together, you’re kind of like, “Actually, they don’t need that. They’ll know that bit has happened off screen.” You can’t really anticipate it and you always want it in case you need it. You can’t really make the call at script stage or at shooting stage. So there’s some things you shoot and then you just don’t need them, but you didn’t know that at the time and you’ll never know that. That said, I think I’m getting better at knowing what kind of things we need, what kind of things we don’t need. But in the cutting room it’s very much about just getting it down so that it’s constantly moving, the plot is advancing. It’s a thriller, you wanna feel on the edge of your seat, but you’ve also got space for the characters. It’s just making sure that it’s all got the right rhythm and the right pace and that you’re never letting the air out of it basically.

When Will ‘Slow Horses’ Season 5 Begin Filming?
Image via Apple TV+.

In an ideal world, if Apple says, “We want more,” when do you think is the soonest you could be filming Season 5 and 6?

SMITH: [Laughs] In an ideal world, I imagine that next year we might be doing it.

Sure. This is obviously all hypothetical. Listen, there is no debate in my mind, you guys are getting Seasons 5 and 6 because the show is too good and people love it. It’s just such a great show that there’s no way Apple would say, “Oh, yeah, we have a huge star, great reviewed show. We don’t want to continue making this.”

SMITH: Oh, that’s very kind of you. Fingers crossed, et cetera. [Laughs]

Slow Horses Season 3, Episodes 1 and 2 are available to stream on Apple TV in the U.S.

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