The Big Picture

Collider’s Steve Weintraub speaks with creator and EP Tim Miller for his new Prime Video animated series
Secret Level
ahead of New York Comic Con.
Like his acclaimed Netflix series,
Love, Death & Robots
,
Secret Level
is an anthology series of original short stories that live within the beloved worlds of popular and future video games.
During their conversation, Miller’s discusses the video games fans will see, including Pac-Man and Warhammer 40,000, collaborating with video game companies, what to expect from the series, his hopes for a Season 2, and more.

One of Prime Video’s New York Comic Con panels will be dedicated to filmmaker and animator Tim Miller’s (Deadpool) upcoming series Secret Level. Miller, who serves as creator and executive producer, along with EP and supervising director Dave Wilson, are bringing some exciting updates and brand-new footage from their innovative new series, which celebrates their passion for video games with a collection of 15 stunning shorts.

For fans of Love, Death & Robots, Secret Level brings the same mind-blowing animation, but it ties original short stories into beloved games, from Pac-Man (which Miller says will be the most controversial piece of the anthology series) to hard R episodes that showcase Warhammer 40,000. Other IPs that make up the show’s unforgettable episodes include beloved PlayStation characters, Dungeons & Dragons, Mega Man, and so much more.

During their conversation, Miller walks us through the idea behind Secret Level, how it was inspired by his collaboration with directors like David Fincher for Love, Death & Robots, and what it was like finding IPs to include and companies to collaborate with. Find out which episodes Miller can’t wait for viewers to see and why, which companies were his “white whales,” how a Jack London short inspired one of the episodes, and why Pac-Man is so “polarizing.” He discusses reuniting with Warhammer, R-rated shorts, what he’d like to see in Season 3, and shares an update on Love, Death & Robots Season 4. You can read the full conversation below.

“Anybody can have a good idea; the hard part is getting it made.”

COLLIDER: How did this project happen?

TIM MILLER: Blur Studio has been desirous of moving into content creation for a while now, and Love, Death & Robots was our first move into the arena and we loved it. It was really great. So, what is that next big thing? There are a lot of different options, but because we’re lazy, it seemed the low-hanging fruit would be to take our relationships to the video game animation space, because that’s what Blur does, and the trust that we built over those years of working with different game IPs, and essentially do Love, Death & Video Games, which seems pretty simple. It was literally me going, “Hey, I have an idea. What about Love, Death, & Video Games?” Everybody goes, “That would be fucking cool.”

I saw this great interview with Steve Jobs, who said something about, “It’s easy to have an idea, but to actually turn that idea into a real product, that’s where it’s really difficult.” Anybody can have a good idea; the hard part is getting it made. And that was true in this case. The hard part is trying to get everybody into a structure that is fair and seems like it would be mutually beneficial to a streamer, to the IP holders for the games, to the developers for the games and to Blur, and to all the animation companies that we have established this community of who are usually our competitors but are, in fact, our friends, and how to make it work for everybody and let them do something great.

Related The 20 Best Episodes of ‘Love, Death & Robots,’ Ranked According to IMDb So that was her edge…

Love, Death & Robots is you and David Fincher. Was Fincher mad that it’s just you getting credit for this? I’m joking around.

MILLER: [Laughs] No, he didn’t care. Honestly, we talked to everybody at the beginning of this process about the show. It could have gone to Netflix, or it could have gone to Amazon, HBO, anybody, but Amazon was willing to give us a home and invest in us as creators. This is part of our first-look deal there where there’s more behind it, so it was cool. There were some doubters, but the people whose opinion I value most, the minute I said, “Love, Death & Video Games,” they said, “I’m in.” One person said, “I’ll buy it.” That was the end of my pitch, and it was, “I’ll buy it.”

How They Chose the Video Games to Include in ‘Secret Level’

You have 15 short films in this season. How did you decide which would be the IP that you used in these episodes? Did you almost go for other things or was it also, “Who will give us permission?”

MILLER: Both. We definitely had a focused group of games that we all wanted for a variety of reasons. They’d be all the reasons that you would pick, too. There are the ones that we’re excited about because we played them as kids; there are the ones we’re excited about because we’ve seen information about them and they’re coming out and we’re excited to play them; or there are ones that are huge games and we know there would be a huge fan base to follow them. There are a lot of reasons why one could be in, and some of those reasons may be applied to several, but they could all be for a variety of reasons. Then you get to the dance, and you have to dance with the girls who are willing to step out on the floor with you, right? We always knew that it would be a mix because a lot of the people who would be most interested in this would be people that had a game that they were willing to sell and they wanted to advertise the fact that they had a new game. So, we always knew it would be a mix of big name content that was existing, but also wanted to extend that reach to new games that are coming out.

The one thing that I think is important is that we added Indian nostalgia games because I think it’s important that the show have something for the whole gaming community. I mean, fuck, I would like it to include board games. Any kind of gaming would be interesting to me because I think it’s all the same thing. The medium is less, I think, a defining factor than just the fact that it’s a communal activity where people get together and play — not always communal, but you know what I mean.

If you get to do more episodes, if this is a hit, could you pursue something from the Atari 2600 or the ColecoVision or in television, like old-school games, or are the rights too complicated?

MILLER: They are complicated. We went after a game that belonged to a company that had been sold to a company that had been sold to a company that aggregated it under, and it was in deep inside somebody’s vault. Even when you call them up and say, “Look, you don’t have to do anything but give us permission to make the game. There’s no downside for you,” sometimes just the inertia of the legal process of granting somebody the rights was enough to kill it for some people, shockingly. I think that’ll be less of an issue in future seasons because people will see what it is, but you have to put yourself in the mindset of me going, “Imagine a show and it’s about games, and it’ll be on a streaming service.” It’s a little harder for some people who aren’t us to imagine.

Did you go after Rockstar, or were they just like, “Yeah, no?”

MILLER: There are a couple of those white whales, and Rockstar was one — GTA, obviously, but Red Dead Redemption. Another one was Valve. We tried really hard. I would kill to have Team Fortress or Half-Life in the mix. We actually talked to Valve, but again, it’s hard to put it on people’s agenda when they have to participate with us in a variety of ways. Everybody’s busy. Most of the games that are in there now are people we’ve worked with before and they know us, and they believe me when I say this is gonna be fucking awesome. It’s a little harder when you get into the world of people who haven’t worked with us before, and it’s some dude on Zoom saying, “This is gonna be cool. Trust me.”

Why 15 episodes? Why not 12 or 10 or 18? How did you end up with that number?

MILLER: It was gonna be 18 to be honest, which was the number that Secret Level was at the beginning. Then this show took so long to come together, more time than I thought, then we had a pandemic in the middle of production, and costs just got a little higher than we thought. So, we had to sacrifice a few five-minute episodes on the altar of financial responsibility. That’s all.

When Will We See ‘Secret Level’ Season 2?
Image via Prime Video

Say it’s a hit, and you get picked up to do more episodes, is it gonna be two or three years to get more episodes out? What did you learn with Love, Death & Robots that tells you the infrastructure of making this?

MILLER: Ultimately, I think it’s important to get the show on a yearly cadence, but I also want to have things underneath the Secret Level umbrella where we can do other things that are not necessarily on this big long timeline of a giant show. There are a variety of reasons why I think that’s important, but I think two years is a long time to wait for new content.

I agree.

MILLER: But it also takes a while to make these kinds of things, and 15 minutes is not inconsiderable. With Love, Death & Robots, it’s the same thing. It takes time for a smaller boutique company to finish 15 minutes of high quality animation, but there are ways to do that. Once you get the first one done, if we’re successful… Normally, nobody is willing to say start Season 2 before they know how Season 1 did, in the usual course of events. Amazon has a little more faith in us than that, but also a year is not enough time. You can’t have it come out, wait for a few months for a green light for the next one, and then have something out nine months later that’s 15 minutes long. It’s just not possible.

So, in the fullness of time, what we hope for is enough faith so that we can be working on Season 3 while we’re finishing Season 2 because you know it’s gonna be successful. The more we work on the show, the more ways I feel like we can expand the game linear media synergy in interesting ways.

After the trailer comes out, there’s all this positive buzz online. Did you all of a sudden have other video game companies calling you once they saw what it was, saying, “Oh, now I understand. What can we do?”

MILLER: Yeah, we had a few. The incoming calls, which we honestly hadn’t had any, surprisingly, the incoming calls were all from people we hadn’t spoken to or companies that we hadn’t worked with before. We did have a few people we had spoken to about the series early on and decided not to be in it. A lot of them were like, “We’d like to get in and hold our place in line for Season 2 right now.” So, it was good. It was good to see the excitement.

But we’re also hitting a really shitty time in the industry in general which hurts all of our partners on the vendor side and all of the IP partners, too. I went to Unreal Fest last week, and I was surprised that Tim Sweeney talked about it up on stage. It is a contraction period for whatever reason. I don’t pretend to understand the economics, but it’s just a tough time for people, and it’s hard for game companies to say, “Yeah, we’re laying off people, and we’re gonna spend millions of dollars on an animated short.”

That does make a lot of sense. I hadn’t thought about all that.

How Long Are the Episodes in ‘Secret Level’?

So, I know the longest episodes are 15 minutes. How long are the episodes? Are there any that are five minutes? What are the lengths?

MILLER: We reserved the five-minute category for indie games and nostalgia games. So, in our lineup, Mega Man is a nostalgia game, Pac-Man is a nostalgic game, Spelunky is an indie game, and then the 10-minutes and the 15-minutes are for the games that are out now or games that are coming out in the future like Exodus and Dungeons & Dragons and Warhammer. Those things. With the exception of Unreal Tournament, which I guess is technically a nostalgia game, but they really wanted to do a big 15-minute short, and use it as a real proof of concept for the power of Unreal Engine, as if anyone needed proof.

[Laughs] Everyone uses it!

MILLER: I know, but honestly, when you see our episode, it’s fucking amazing, and it’s testing through the fucking roof. So, yes, it was our first big Unreal project, but I have to say it’s some of the best work I’ve seen out of Unreal Engine. Anyway, I don’t think there’s anything over 15 minutes, but when we get into the ones that are supposed to be five, they might be seven, ones that are supposed to be 10 might be 11.5 or 12 because we get excited. In animation, in most everybody’s pipeline, running time is not the same as shot count, so you try and weigh those things when you’re fitting it in the budget. I would rather have a longer story with a lower shot count that could fit into the budget, but some directors, like if you’re Michael Bay, when you get into animation, you’re gonna get really expensive because the shot count is a big driver of costs in animation. So, for somebody who likes lots of cuts, it’s gonna be harder.

Have you announced who’s directing the shorts?

MILLER: No, but I don’t think it would matter, really. We don’t have guest directors.

There’s no secret Fincher episode?

MILLER: No. There’s no secret Tim Miller episode either.

Very disappointing, sir.

MILLER: Well, I can tell you, Dave Wilson’s episodes are fucking amazing. The Armored Core episode, the Warhammer episode — amazing. Everybody really did a good job. Dave, since he’s a supervising director, really got everything up to a level that it feels super cool.

What Can You Expect From the Episodes?

I am very curious about the Dungeons & Dragons episode, and I’m sure there are a lot of fans out there who are also curious. What can you tease about that one?

MILLER: That one was Maxim who is the in-house in his directing comrades. They kind of treat directing as a communal sport there, even though we deal with Maxim mostly. They called dibs on Dungeons & Dragons early on, and it’s exactly what you would expect from a game that is based on going on an adventure with your friends. That’s the real focus of it. Dungeons & Dragons doesn’t have anybody like Master Chief, right? They have different categories. It’s a little more broad and wide open. I’m not a big DND fan, but it feels like, from what I’m told, the game would feel like. We’ve heard a few people say this is as close to the experience of playing Dungeons & Dragons as we’ve seen in a linear storytelling mode. What I love about it is it’s a really emotional episode, and Unit did it; the same company that did the one you saw today, New World [Aeternum], and the animation is just stunning. It’s beautiful. It really is.

What can you tease about Warhmammer?

MILLER: I don’t know what I can say about it. This was the important thing for when I showed it to someone in the film industry the other day. I said, “Look, you’re not gonna understand this. This is not made for you. The lore of Warhammer is very dense and it is very involved.” The fans of the Warhammer franchise are very focused and dedicated, and it’s a really rich experience, but what Dave managed to create is something where that density of information that the fans love, you feel it, but you don’t need to know it to access the episode. So what I told this person is, “I don’t understand all the lore of Warhammer, but just sit back and enjoy this because it’s a beautiful fucking tone poem of violence.”

You’ll let the experience wash over you because you don’t really need to know the details. If you are a Warhammer fan, it’s all in there. You’ll understand the badges and the banners and why this guy’s got this decal on his arm and why this one doesn’t, and what this box they’re dragging around might mean, and all the other inside baseball things. If you’ve ever worked with Games Workshop, they love that shit, and it’s really important to them that all of that stuff be correct, and so it is. And it’s important to Dave. Dave is a big Warhammer fan.

Oddly enough, it was exactly 20 years after we did one of the most hallowed Blur projects, which was a Warhammer 40,000 short where I got a call from Games Workshop who said, “We need this cinematic done for Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War, and we only have four weeks to do it.” I said, “Oh man, we got guys that love Warhammer. This guy’s got little mini figs on the desk, but I’m sorry, that’s an impossible deadline. I can’t do it. Thank you very much.” And then I went out back and had lunch, and Dave Wilson was back there and this other guy, Paul Taylor, and I said, “Oh, man, you guys are gonna hate this, but I had to turn down this Warhammer short because they only had four weeks.” They said, “What the fuck are you talking about? You just turned down Warhammer? No! Go call them back. We will work our fingers bloody into the keyboard to get it done.” And they did, and it was amazing. It was the biggest push in the history of Death March projects, but everybody just slept at the studio and worked 24/7, and it was awesome, and they loved it. For a lot of us, it was a seminal experience in the studio.

Image via Prime Video

One of the episodes is called PlayStation, or am I wrong about that?

MILLER: It’s called Playtime.

Does it have anything to do with PlayStation or am I wrong?

MILLER: It’s more of a PlayStation brand spot where they wanted a story that could highlight a bunch of different PlayStation IPs. We came up with a story that is about gaming and gamers and about the need to be inventive and play games, and then we worked all the PlayStation characters we could into that story.

I know that some of these episodes are definitely gonna be a hard R. One of the things about Love, Death & Robots is that it’s a variety of tones and ratings? Is that similar to this? Are there certain ones that are PG or sweet or is it mostly more PG-13 and a lot of R?

MILLER: No, we have that for sure. It was important to some of the IP holders that you don’t want to put Spelunky right next to a Warhammer short. Aside from the tonally dissonant experience for the viewer, it’s not a good, necessarily, franchise mixer. I don’t think I can talk about exactly how we’re releasing them yet, but we were able to put some separation between those two things so you’re not getting chocolate in your peanut butter. There are really violent ones, but there are some that are really sweet. Then the ones that I think gonna be controversial are things like Pac-Man, where it’s not what you would expect, for sure.

Which of these shorts made you wanna start playing the video game, or just play what it’s selling?

MILLER: We would have these big land games in the studio all the time. For a while it was Doom, then it was Quake, then it was Decent, then it was Duke Nukem, and there was an Unreal Tournament era of Blur. So, watching these death matches made me want to play Unreal Tournament.

‘Fallout’ Had a Major (Positive) Impact on ‘Secret Level’
Image via Prime Video

What’s been the reception at Prime Video to the trailer and the buzz online?

MILLER: I would say that Fallout really had an impact. When Fallout came out, it was just a really big indication of how popular gaming can be and how much the fan base could support a video game narrative on a linear media. So, we had two things happen at once: one, we started being able to show them final episodes, and then two, Fallout came out, and it was a huge success for them. So those two things sort of coincided. We would get calls like, “Oh my god, these episodes are fucking amazing,” and I would go, “Of course they are.” [Laughs] But the success of Fallout gave us a new sense of focus from Amazon on the show in a really positive way. Right when we needed to push into this final phase of rolling out the show to the public, it gets more marketing energy behind it.

What Will Fans Learn About ‘Secret Level’ at NYCC?

Speaking of marketing, what can you tease for people who are going to New York Comic Con? What are they gonna get? Are they going to see any footage? What are you going to announce?

MILLER: We’re gonna show some new footage there. We’re gonna present a tasting menu, an amuse-bouche for the variety of styles, tones, and IPs that are a part of the process. There could be a new trailer or teaser…

The show comes out in December. It’s time for a new trailer.

MILLER: Yes.

What better time than New York Comic Con? So, I’m gonna put you on the spot — are there two or three of them that are must-see the second this drops? Ones that even you, who is notoriously tough, are like, “This is fucking awesome?”

MILLER: It is too hard. That’s like saying, “Choose your children. What’s your favorite child?” I think Pac-Man is gonna be very polarizing, but I love it. I love it that we could take this kind of swing with something, and it really is true to the future of the franchise, so I’m excited about that. I love the Exodus short story mostly because I adapted one of my favorite Jack London short stories as the basis of it, and it’s a really touching father-daughter story. I am a father and I have a daughter, so it’s meaningful to me. Warhammer just fucking blew me away. It’s just so good. There’s a shot in there, a oner, that might be my favorite shot that Blur’s ever done. Unreal Tournament, like I said, is this nostalgia fest. Everyone is amazing. The New World one that you saw, it looks so good, and it’s so funny, and I love it for that reason.

There’s not one in the lot that I’m like, “Well, if you miss that one you’ll be alright.” I think they’re all awesome. Even the ones that– I’ve never played Spelunky in my entire life, but I love the episode and the style of it. Dave did this fight sequence in Sifu — fuck me, it’s just amazing. They’re all super cool.

Image via Prime Video

Do you think that if this were to continue, you could ever see making an episode using something from Pinball? I love Pinball, and I’m just wondering, is that possible or am I reaching too far?

MILLER: No. I mean, a lot of Pinball stuff is branded on IP. You’ll see the Spider-Man Pinball, and I have the Deadpool Pinball game. I took pictures to send that to Rhett [Reese], Ryan [Reynolds], and Paul [Wernick]. But yeah, I think so. For sure. There’s a famous Roald Dahl story called Man from the South where there’s a really great short story, and it’s written around a lighter. The guy’s got a lighter, and he bet somebody, “Can it light 10 times in a row?” And if you could make a short story about a lighter, I can make a short story about a Pinball game. I don’t know what it is, but there’s a great Pinball short story in there. Even if you go to, like, Tommy, which is a great rock opera, it’s a story about playing Pinball, but it’s a dramatic story about playing Pinball.

What is the status of the new season of Love, Death & Robots ? Has it been announced? Is it coming back?

MILLER: They did announce it. It is coming back, but it hasn’t been dated yet. But I can say we’re working on it diligently.

Do you think there’s a possibility that new episodes could drop next year?

MILLER: Yes.

Are you certain or is it a maybe?

MILLER: You said a possibility. It’s been a while, so I think people are due.

Image via Netflix

Yes. Are you working on anything that involves you directing live-action?

MILLER: I’m working on several things but nothing that I can say. Man, the environment is just… You know.

Believe me, I know.

MILLER: So, there’s nothing I would bet my own money on would go, but there are several things I’m trying to. You know I’m slightly picky in my old age. I don’t wanna devote two years of my life to something that I don’t love passionately.

Secret Level hits Prime Video on December 10.

A new adult-animated anthology series featuring original stories set within the worlds of some of the most beloved video games. Each of the 15 episodes is a celebration of video games.Release Date December 10, 2024 Seasons 1