[Editor’s note: The following contains major spoilers for Season 2 of Shrinking.]

Summary

Season 2 of the Apple TV+ series ‘Shrinking’ ends with a Thanksgiving episode where characters find forgiveness and strengthen new relationships.

Co-creator Bill Lawrence hints at a Season 3 focusing on moving forward, with scripts already prepared.

Lawrence discusses guest appearances, show direction, relationships, and plans beyond the initial three-season arc.

The Apple TV+ series Shrinking has wrapped its second season with a Thanksgiving episode that brought everyone together. Jimmy (Jason Segel), a grieving therapist in the process of figuring out life after the death of his wife, found forgiveness with Louis (Brett Goldstein), the man responsible. While Gaby (Jessica Williams) sparked a new relationship with Derrick (Damon Wayans Jr.), Liz (Christa Miller) and Derek (Ted McGinley) had a few things to figure out, and Paul (Harrison Ford) began experiencing worsening symptoms of his illness. But through it all, this friend group was there to support and love each other, every step of the way.
After screening the finale for Season 2, Collider got the opportunity to chat one-on-one with co-creator/showrunner Bill Lawrence, who talked about having a pick-up for Season 3, which will be about moving forward, how far along they are into working out the next season, what could be to come for the regular cast, and his hope that there will be some returning guest cast. He also discussed Jimmy and Gaby’s relationship, the How I Met Your Mother reunion, directing the Thanksgiving episode, getting through Paul’s emotional speech, where they took Louis’ story, the surprise of Summer, and having an interest in continuing beyond the conclusion of the originally planned three-season arc. And if all that is still not enough, Lawrence gave insight into the Scrubs reboot, his Steve Carell HBO comedy series, and that much talked about possible fourth season of Ted Lasso.
Season 3 of ‘Shrinking’ Is About Moving Forward After Grief and Forgiveness

Collider: Congrats on Season 3! Where are you at, in the writing process for Season 3?
BILL LAWRENCE: When we pitched the show initially, we pitched a beginning, middle, and end, and said that the first season is about grief, the second season is about forgiveness, and the third season is about moving forward. Besides coming up with episodes and deciding what to write, we’re all super receptive to and interested in continuing on with the show. People have been like, “But you said it’s got a beginning, middle, and end.” And I’m like, “Yeah, it will. But the cool thing about streaming storytelling is, if we’re lucky enough to get to do it, we’ll come up with a new beginning, middle and end, three-season story. If Season 4 started with Jimmy waking up and going, “I’m still really sad about my life,” you’d be like, “What’s going on?!” So, we have to come up with a new driving narrative. The only thing that’s been tweaked a little in Season 3 is just making sure it doesn’t feel like the show is over forever.
Do you have episodes complete for Season 3, as far as the scripts go?
LAWRENCE: Yeah. We’re supposed to start shooting in late January/early February. We’ve got the first five drafts in and are working on those scripts now. They always evolve. With this show, we rewrite and rewrite. You’ll sometimes come up with a huge, cool moment in an episode, and then you have to rewrite. We’re doing it now, rewriting episode three. We added something to it that we’re going to go back and set up in episode one and two. It’s just fun, that way. The writers are so good that you’re talking about tweaking, more than any real significant changes.

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Did you always know that getting Jimmy and Gaby together was going to be a temporary thing?
LAWRENCE: I subscribe to the thing where some romantic things are great and worth playing out, and some, if you took a second and thought about it, are most likely going to be a disaster. Even back in the days of Scrubs, they were like, “Oh, man, are we gonna do a J.D. and Elliot will-they-or-won’t-they?” And I remember saying, “All right, let’s all have an honest moment here. If two single people are in a work environment, and they have chemistry and connection and they’re in their 20s, are they going to hook up?” Everyone was like, “Yeah, I guess so.” They’re gonna decide if it’s a disaster or not. The audience will let us know what we’re supposed to do. I’m a huge believer in seeing what the audience vibes on. It was definitely cool, not only to see how they processed Jessica [Williams] and Jason [Segel] doing stuff together, but even seeing Jason with Cobie Smulders. I couldn’t have told you, when we decided to do that, if it was gonna be a one-off or if it was gonna be representative of something different for his character.
Cobie Smulders’ ‘Shrinking’ Character Set Up Jimmy’s Journey in Season 3

Image via Apple TV+

How did that come about? Did that character exist, and then you were able to get Cobie Smulders to come in, or did you know you wanted to do a How I Met Your Mother reunion, so you created that character?
LAWRENCE: That character existed. If the third year is about moving forward, we wanted to show that, for all of his progress, this is still a dude that’s a little stuck. Early on, when we were writing this second season, we said, “Let’s pick a time and present to him what seems like the perfect woman as a character, and then show the audience he’s still not ready for that.” That sets up what the third season will be about. Then we said, “Who should it be?” Shrinking is really fun. We’re in a place where we can say, “Hey, Damon Wayans, you wanna come do this?,” or “Hey, Kelly Bishop, you wanna play Harrison Ford’s ex-wife?” And then, I talked about it with Jason and we were like, “Hey, Cobie, wanna come do something completely different with your old friend?” They had immediate chemistry, and it was just cool to watch. I’m a TV fan. I love when you see familiar faces, especially when there’s been a gap with them doing something new. So, it operates on two levels for me. And they nailed it. I watched How I Met Your Mother, and I didn’t think of it for a second when I was watching the show. I thought that was really cool.
When you do have somebody come do the show like that and the potential is so clear, do you want to have her back? Will we ever see her again?
LAWRENCE: It would be insane to not see her again. I can’t tell you in what way, shape or form. This isn’t old network TV. I’m not in the business of quick one-offs. Obviously, she’s super talented and busy in her own right, so it would have to be based in and around what she can do, but we’re all super fans.

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Wayans Jr. had so much fun on ‘Shrinking’ that he hopes Derrick #2 will make a return in Season 3.

It was also so easy to be charmed by Damon Wayans Jr. this season, and to want Gaby and Derrick 2 to figure things out.
LAWRENCE: I like people not knowing what they want to happen. It’s such a talented gang here. I’m not afraid of tropes in television, as long as you have kind of a fresh spin on it. For me, as long as people can’t say, “Oh, I know what’s gonna happen next,” I think we’re good. I know what’s gonna happen next, only because we’re doing it, but I feel fairly confident that you don’t.
Derrick #2 is not only a good guy, but he’s good for Gaby. Is it challenging to make sure that never feels forced, or is it all about the actor you cast?
LAWRENCE: Jessica Williams has talked about how where stories go depends upon chemistry. An easy example is when we first put Harrison Ford and Wendie Malick in scenes together, I couldn’t tell you that it was gonna end up with them being a couple I wanna see together for the rest of their years. But they had the type of chemistry that, as writers, we leaned into it. Jessica has said she loves the challenge of creating chemistry, romantic and friend wise, with characters. She was talking about Damon and was like, “His love language is bits, as is mine.” The very first scene they shot, they were super funny and charismatic. We work in a world that all the writers are on set and have access to this stuff, so all of us were immediately like, “Oh, we’re definitely gonna follow this, as long as we can.” It’s the type of things that change from going, “Hey, is this gonna be a funny three-episode thing that she explodes, or is this gonna be a funny six-episode thing that maybe continues on, depending on how busy he is?” That’s part of the fun.
I love how much gets made of how hot Wendie Malik is, and how hot she and Harrison Ford are together. How much of that is in the script? How much of that is Jessica Williams, just throwing that out?
LAWRENCE: One of my favorite things about Jessica is that I can tell when she loves something that we put out there, as writers. If we start a little brush fire, and it’s funny, and she loves it, then she’ll dump kerosene on it and make it the biggest thing in the world. She’s so talented, but it’s one of the things, as a comedy writer, that I appreciate the most because she makes us look so good.
‘Shrinking’ Season 3 Will Continue To Follow Paul As His Parkinson’s Worsens

Image via Apple TV+

Paul getting vulnerable in front of everyone at Thanksgiving was a lot, emotionally. How much harder things are going to get for him in Season 3? Should we be bracing ourselves for tears, moving forward?
LAWRENCE: I wanna make sure I’m not speaking out of school, but Harrison was so good in that stuff because I would imagine that it was impossible for him not to personalize, as a guy that’s been acting for [as long as he has]. He’s gonna be 82 years old. and he cherishes being able to do that. He works so hard and knows his material and is so skilled. I watched it and got emotional because I drifted in and out of, “Is he talking about the character? Is he talking about himself?” That’s why it’s so poignant. I can tell you two things. When I say that there’s a beginning, middle, and end to this show, and that moving forward means different things for different people, I wouldn’t say that I’m looking to put everybody through the pain of watching what Brett [Goldstein] and I have had to deal with, with people in our lives with Parkinson’s. But I will tell you that we want to show what it means, warts and all, in an inspiring way because of the people in our lives, like Brett’s father. Michael J. Fox is an example of how to handle a bad hand, more than anyone in the world, and is so inspiring. So, without a doubt, that stuff is gonna be moving and one of the main driving narratives of the third season. That’s why we ended that way.
You directed the Season 2 finale, and there was a lot going on because it’s also a Thanksgiving episode. What made you want to take this episode on and what were the challenges specific to this particular episode?
LAWRENCE: I used to direct my pilots, and I used to direct a lot, but I’m old and I get tired now, so I don’t do it as often. Just so you know how I always get swamped, the Thanksgiving episode was supposed to air around Thanksgiving, but I was late with all these shows. It’s my fault, not Apple’s. But it’s still a holiday thing and it’s gonna air on Christmas Eve. The cool thing is that when you get to the finale, all the writing is done. It’s the one time that I wouldn’t have been bringing everything else to a screeching halt. I really thought, selfishly, that I had to take the opportunity to not only direct and work with Harrison Ford on comedy, but to at least have that experience because I think this is one of the more talented casts I’ve ever been part of assembling. To work first-hand with all these people and to talk about the moments in the script and to try new things, the collaboration was so fun. There’s a lot of stuff that was just scripted as, “We see everybody’s last moments, post-Thanksgiving, as Louis is at the train station.” So, what was fun for me was being on set with these people and coming up with that. I remember saying to Harrison Ford, “I need something that shows us that this Thanksgiving dinner is over, and I would love it to be Alice wearing your goofy hat, and then you come back for it and leave.” He was like, “I’ll do it, but then I’ll have to go back again and give her a smooch on the forehead.” I was like, “Do it!” Not to be a corny artist, but that part of it was a career highlight for me. It was super fun.

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I just couldn’t understand why you wanted to take on an episode with so many scenes that have so many people in them because they’re together for Thanksgiving. That seems like torturing yourself.
LAWRENCE: That’s a great question because you know how the business works and how production works. I also thought it would be a gift to the crew because other directors aren’t allowed to do what I did. What I did with the Thanksgiving scenes was to go, “All right, let’s shoot the master first,” which for people that don’t know is a big wide shot of everybody. We’d get two lines in and I’d be like, “Okay, jump ahead to the end.” And Harrison would go, “What?!” And I was like, “Harrison, I’m never gonna be in this shot for any of your speech or any of your other stuff. Just go to the end when you say, ‘I’m countin’ on you,’ and sit down, in case I use it there.” And he was like, “I love you!” Part of the reason I did it was that I could eliminate some of the nightmare that comes for other directors – and there are so many good ones on the show – who would be obligated to present me with everything, from start to finish. With this, if I wanted to cut corners and anything was missing, it was my fault. I was trying to make it a little bit more painless.
Did you have any idea that Summer would become such an endearing character?
LAWRENCE: No. We wanted somebody that was just a comedic foil, and Rachel Stubington is a brilliant young comedienne and has made it something substantial. When we find people like that who make something more than what it is on the page, we lean into it. And then, when someone like you says something nice, we just go, “Thank you.” But she made us like that person, and because she was so good at it, we gave her a backstory, we tried to make people empathize, and we ended up loving her for it.
Brett Goldstein’s Louis Needs To Make a Return Appearance in ‘Shrinking’ Season 3

Image via Apple TV+

There’s something so beautiful about where things were left with Louis. Did you want to leave that on a more positive note than where it all started?
LAWRENCE: I’m gonna give Brett Goldstein props, and I hate doing this because he’s a buddy of mine and I hate to say nice things, but I almost blew it and didn’t cast Brett. It was Jason’s idea. I told Brett, “I trust you as an artist. If you wanna do it, go do it. But if you blow it, the whole year doesn’t work.” The reason is, we wanted to subvert expectations with somebody that everybody had been prone to hate ahead of time and see as the villain. We needed people to immediately go, “Oh, shit, I empathize with this guy a little bit. He seems broken.” And when we do a flashback episode, he and Jimmy seem like the same person. The challenge for us, as writers, at the end of the year, was wanting people to hope that guy was okay and that Jimmy would make it okay for him to be okay. We were nervous about whether or not it would make people mad, but we liked that people were conflicted. We are an optimistic show. The season was about forgiveness, and we are a group of people that feel, right or wrong, forgiveness is the key to fixing almost anything, inside yourself and inside of others. And so, to end on that moment, with a version of the very same song playing, but a completely different version of it, as when Jimmy and Louis first met at the beginning of the year, that’s more hopeful and optimistic instead of the version that was more dark and depressing, was intentional. And I thought Brett was so good. Now, I’m in the process of having to torture him and go, “If we’re moving forward, I’m gonna have to see how in the hell Louis is doing, at least once.”
What’s it like to officially be in development on a Scrubs reboot?
LAWRENCE: The cool thing about Scrubs is that people see us on social media and in real life together, all the time. Zach [Braff] hosted the Paley Center panel. I hang out with John C McGinley. Sarah Chalke is coming into town. Of course, I’ll see Judy [Reyes]. [Neil] Flynn is on Shrinking. We’re all friends, but we’re also all friends with the crew. I can start rattling off different people that have worked with and for me there, for years and years, and the writing staff. There are two things about that reboot that are interesting to me. One is, we’re all workers for hire. I’m very lucky. We’re in a period right now where Hollywood isn’t necessarily making tons of stuff. The opportunity, if someone says, “Hey, would you guys be interested in making more Scrubs?,” the good thing for the show, not the greatest thing for the industry, is that so many super talented people – actors, actresses, writers, directors, etc. – that worked on that show, some of them for eight years, are available. There’s a lot of excitement for us to get to do it again, and it’s also cool to think of the new people that you would add in. It makes me feel old, but we meet with younger writers who are like, “Scrubs made me want to be a comedy writer.” I’m like, “Shut the fuck up. I’m not that old.” But I am. So, that’s the business side.
With the creative side, the show’s not going to pick up a day later. It can’t. I’m interested in where these characters are, that many years later. I always remember the finale of Scrubs, in Season 8, with J.D. saying he has a dream of how things would go and, “Tell me my fantasies won’t come true, just this once.” I never said that’s what happened. I’m interested, not only creatively, in where they’d be now and who they are, but also under the umbrella of what’s happened to the medical world and how that looks now. And one step past that, I love stories where the students become the teachers, and that would be what has to happen in this type of world. As far as reboots go, I’m doing it because we all wanna do it. I think it’ll make us super happy, on a human level, to spend time with each other. As far as how it’s going, I like the pressure of feeling nervousness from fans wanting it to be something they would like because it will make us try harder. I’m a huge TV fan. If a reboot of a show I love is coming on, I’m gonna watch it. If it’s good, I’m going to be so happy. I’m just gonna watch it and enjoy it. And if it’s bad, I’m going to enjoy badmouthing it to my friends because we talk about TV all day. Either way, it will be fine. But I think we’re gonna nail it. My fingers are crossed. I’m hopeful.
Having a balance between the original characters and adding in new people seems like the perfect way to do it.
LAWRENCE: I would find me and bonk me over the head, if it was like, “Hey, I woke up and it’s just another day at work. It turns out I didn’t move.” And plus, the hospital we used to shoot out on Coldwater [Canyon in North Hollywood] is now a bunch of condos. So, even that, I would probably take a shot of that and be like, “Oh, look, that’s where Sacred Heart used to be.” That would be funny. By the way, my son knows someone that lives there and says it’s nice.
Show Creator Bill Lawrence Is Hoping To Get All the Original ‘Scrubs’ Cast Members in the Reboot

Image via ABC

Are you expecting to get the cast back? Are they all going to be able to do it, or do you think some will be guest stars?
LAWRENCE: I would be bummed if we didn’t get a chance to see everybody. I’m even talking about my wife (Christa Miller). Other people have other gigs, but I think that the show would only work with a nice core of super beloved hopefully regulars that drive the show mixed with a bunch of new actors.
How are things going with the Steve Carell comedy series for HBO? How far along are things with that show?
LAWRENCE: That show starts shooting in spring of next year. I created that with Matt Tarses and we have an amazing writing staff. The staff that we put together now usually have a cool, healthy combination of young, newer writers and people that have run their own shows, so that there’s a lot of experienced people there. When people are nice and say, “Hey, you’re getting to do a lot of stuff,” I always try to make sure to say that it’s because I get to work with super talented men and women, and often talk to nice people like you and take credit for their work. But it’s going great. The staff has been working for over a month now. We’re starting to cast up off the pilot script with people I’m really excited about. I think it’s gonna be a blast.
What made you want to cast Phil Dunster on that show? Is it a character that you feel is well-suited to him, or is it a character you think will show a different side of him?
LAWRENCE: I think it will show a different side to him. This is gonna sound way too preachy, but with network TV, where I started – I’m a dinosaur who’s been doing it forever – you used to do a TV show where you’d have 26 episodes the first year sometimes. That gives you 20 episodes of television to figure out who the characters are and make the show work and find the chemistry, and then you explode from there. Everybody that watches old TV will go, “Oh, wow, the first year of Parks and Rec was so different from the second. The first year of Scrubs was so different from the second.” Nowadays, 26 episodes is almost three seasons of a streaming show and to catch an audience in that landscape, sometimes you need to find yourself hitting your stride so fast and finding character chemistry in the voice of the show so fast that for me, it’s almost a cheat sheet to hire actors and actresses that you know and are fans with, and in your head you know how to make them funny and know what they’d be really good at doing, even if it’s not something that you’ve done before. Quite honestly, at this stage of my career, if someone is also an awesome person to be around, I think you’re crazy not to keep hiring them. What I know about Phil is that he’s hyper talented. He’s not like Jamie Tartt in real life, at all, any more than Brett Goldstein is like Roy Kent, at all. To tailor a part especially for him is gonna be a blast.

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‘Ted Lasso’s Potential Season 4 Just Got a Very Promising Update From Warner Bros.

Best believe!

How serious are the conversations about a fourth season of Ted Lasso?
LAWRENCE: With Ted Lasso, I always have to make sure I highlight Jason Sudeikis because he had a vision for the show and it’s such a huge position of pride for me now, looking back, to have been involved in crafting and figuring out what that show was. Him and I ran it the first year, we ran it together the second year, and the third year, he was doing it. You can always tell a new story with characters in this new streaming world. He’s driving it creatively. But man, I’m excited to even still peripherally be a part of it.

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Shrinking

Release Date

January 26, 2023

Cast

Jason Segel
, Luke Tennie
, Michael Urie
, Lukita Maxwell
, Harrison Ford
, Jessica Williams
, Christa Miller
, Ted McGinley
, Heidi Gardner
, Devin Kawaoka
, Lilan Bowden
, Kimberly Condict
, Lily Rabe
, Tilky Jones
, Rachel Stubington
, Wendie Malick
, Sawyer Jones
, Mike C. Nelson
, Matt Knudsen
, Kenajuan Bentley
, Adam Foster Ballard

Seasons

2

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Shrinking is available to stream on Apple TV+. Check out the Season 2 trailer:

Watch on Apple TV+