The Big Picture

Collider’s Steve Weintraub discusses the Apple TV+ series
Dark Matter
with Jimmi Simpson.
Simpson plays Ryan Holder in the series adaptation of producer, author, and showrunner Blake Crouch’s sci-fi novel.
During this interview, Simpson discusses the Season 1 finale, the potential for Season 2, Ryan’s future journey, and more.

[Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for Dark Matter Season 1.]Apple TV+’s sci-fi series Dark Matter Season 1 has come to a close. For a show that wheels and deals in countless alternate realities, the paths not taken, and a stacked cast who play alternate versions of themselves, that finale left a door wide open for possibilities. For Pavia Prize-winner Ryan Holder, played by Emmy nominee Jimmi Simpson (Westworld), we have a lot of questions. During this interview with Collider’s Steve Weintraub, Simpson shares his own theories on where we left Ryan at the end of the season.

Dark Matter is based on author and showrunner Blake Crouch’s novel of the same name, in which Joel Edgerton (The Gift) plays Jason Dessen, who we first meet as a physics professor at Chicago’s Lakemont College. Soon after, we were introduced to Ryan, an old colleague of Jason’s who is a renowned scientist — at least in one reality. Ryan is also the creator of what Alice Braga’s (Queen of the South) character, Amanda Lucas, calls “Lavender Fairy,” the serum that allows everyone to travel via the box. At the end of Season 1, Ryan manages to track down Amanda, but how?

During this interview, Simpson shares what he can about Ryan’s journey in Season 2, what he himself learned throughout production, and his theories on which Jason truly returns at the end of the season. He also discusses his future with Hollywood and why he’d definitely use the box.

You can watch the full conversation in the video above or read the transcript below.

Dark Matter (2024) A man is abducted into an alternate version of his life. Amid the mind-bending landscape of lives he could’ve lived, he embarks on a harrowing journey to get back to his true family and save them from a most terrifying foe: himself.Release Date May 8, 2024 Main Genre Sci-Fi Seasons 1 Creator(s) Blake Crouch Writers Blake Crouch Directors Jakob Verbruggen Expand

What Happens to Ryan and Amanda In ‘Dark Matter’ Season 1?
“They’re in exactly the right place.”

COLLIDER: We’re gonna do a spoiler interview because, fuck it, let’s do a spoiler interview.

JIMMI SIMPSON: I say fuck it times two.

What do you think happens with Ryan and Amanda?

SIMPSON: I’m not even going to talk about that. That story is currently being created, so that’s just a little too much advanced info. But what I will say is that two people who questioned choices that they’d made, hopefully like all of us, will be shown that they are in the right place. They’re in exactly the right place. It doesn’t necessarily mean where they are, that universe; it might mean finding each other. It might mean so many different things. But what the show does to me, Steve, is it articulates that human fear, “What if I’d made the other choice?” And then it explores it so fully.

A lot of us have a little too much fear to be like, “What if I really think about what would have happened?” So Blake and Jackie [Ben-Zekry] do this for us, and then they come to this, to me, very beautiful conclusion of gratitude and things as how they should be. I found it to be the most entertaining therapy session ever to be involved with this project. I think the show is possibly the best thing I’ve ever been a small part of. I think it’s gorgeous, and I think it’s also helpful. But goddamn, is it entertaining?

I was all in. What’s funny is, I asked Blake, and he was very open about a lot of things, but when I started asking about Ryan and Amanda and how Ryan found her, that’s when he completely closed off. I get the vibe that if Apple said, “Let’s do more,” your character and she would maybe be the focus. I got the vibe because he would just not talk about it.

SIMPSON: I see. [Laughs]

So I’ll ask you, how do you think Ryan found her at that restaurant or wherever that was? Or do you not know?

SIMPSON: Yeah, I know, but that’s part of the story that hasn’t been told to everyone yet. So, if you are asking me the reveal of that, it isn’t supposed to be. It’s like Orson Welles — you’re not supposed to know that yet, simply. It would take away from your enjoyment.

Ryan is in this ideal world, and he’s a really smart dude. Do you think he would be happy living in that world?

SIMPSON: I think a lot of us don’t understand. A lot of us are really fearful of change. I’ve chosen a career, like a lot of us, to be like, “Okay, whatever happens, I’m gonna roll with.” Most people, for instance, my father, with setting him up in the most ideal situation for him and his health and his well-being, is right now resisting it for something that would make him sadder, but it’s familiar. So, a lot of us, when faced with a beautiful proposition or beautiful option, all we see is that it’s not what we know, and so we resist it. So, part of Ryan’s journey is figuring out the truth of that. It’s something we all have to grapple with, and that’s what his journey is about in that element, in that multiverse.

Image via Apple TV+

Do you think that he will possibly recreate the serum and try to go into the box, or do you think he will be happy in that world?

SIMPSON: I feel like you’re busting my balls here, Steven. I feel like you’re knocking on doors that have “do not disturb” signs on them.

[Laughs] This is my job. I’ve got to keep on asking these questions.

SIMPSON: Go for it. Keep going. I’ll keep putting the “do not disturb” sign on my door.

Is There an Alternate ‘Dark Matters’ Season 1 Ending?
Maybe they just want us to think that’s the right Jason…
Image via Apple TV+

One of the cool things about the show is it makes the audience think that the Jason that gets home is the Jason that left, but in actuality, it could easily be an alt version of Jason that made one different choice, and also it could be a slightly alt version of the world that he left, but Jason won’t know and the world won’t know. It can make you think.

SIMPSON: 1000%. All of the things you’re expressing are quantum theoretical possibilities beyond a shadow of a doubt. Especially when we’re setting up the superposition and how close things can be and not be the same. It’s all a possibility. Whether or not that’s our storytellers’ intention, I would just speculate that maybe it’s not about that nuance specifically, almost like those aberrations from what our story is. But I’ll tell you what, it’s a possibility. Just like all of this is. Just like all the things we’re talking about are a possibility. So, sure.

I asked Blake, and he feels that it was the Jason that left who’s made it back to his world. But I am saying that there is a better, very strong possibility it is not the Jason that left, and it is not the world that he’s originally from. You know what I mean?

SIMPSON: I do. I would say odds-wise, you’re dead on, but narratively, I’m kind of in Blake’s camp.

I think most people want that to be true. I just think that that’s one of the cool things about the show is it lets the audience decide, and I’m saying, I don’t think it’s the same guy that left.

SIMPSON: Absolutely. I love it. I mean, it’s very possible that the first episode of Season 2 is the Jason we’ve come to know and love pulls a V, his face splits, and he’s a lizard. It’s very possible, and I would root for that shit, man. I would stand up and cheer.

If someone were to actually offer you the ability to go in the box and have the possibility of visiting a much better version of our planet, but at the same time, knowing what could happen, that you might not possibly ever get back to the actual world you left, would you be willing to go in?

SIMPSON: I would say my personality is, yeah, I would be up for trying that. But it’s not born out of any desire to escape this reality. It would be exploratory. So yeah, I would try. I’ve shed most of my, “Okay, what have I done?” I’ve made sense of the majority of downtimes, of questions/errors in my life of, like, “What if I could have avoided that?” I’ve made sense with what has happened since, and the value I’ve gained, the information I’ve gained, the perspective I’ve gained. Literally, the only kind of fantasy I still have about switching something out always involves me bringing the knowledge I have now back to a younger version of myself. That’s the only thing. And it’s simply about life experience and understanding how simple things are that I think are complicated at a young age.

But as far as, like, avoiding a choice, I was already on my way out of that human kind of, “Oh, if only…” and then the show really helped. It was almost therapy, as well as really entertaining. It’s like, “No, you are where you should be, and things do happen for a reason.” As trite as some people might think that, I think it’s a really sound philosophy, and I think Blake’s story backs it up.

‘Breakout Kings’ Was Jimmi Simpson’s Industry Break-Out
“Oh, people can see value in me, given an arc.”
Image via A&E

You’ve been working for a really long time as an actor. When did you feel like you’d made it where you could pay your rent and make a living being an actor?

SIMPSON: Well, because I have very little overhead — I’m not drawn to lights and things and clangs or cars or clothes — I’ve never had stuff I need. I’ve been able to really choose the projects starting maybe three or four years in, where, no, I wasn’t locked in… I think maybe Breakout Kings was the first time I did a series where it’s just like, “I seem to be marketable even to a wider scale than popping in and being ridiculous or off-putting or rakish,” or whatever I was doing mostly. And then I was like, “Oh, people can see value in me, given an arc.” So, Breakout Kings was probably 2010-ish, 2009. That was when I was like, “So I am a part of this community.”

But it was two or three years that I was just like, “So, I can go and make a fart noise and people, for whatever reason, find it compelling. I seem to be able to eek out work.” But I’ll never feel like, “Oh, I’m locked in,” to anything. I’m always going to be happy telling stories and whatever. If this industry has had enough, I’ll figure it out. I love theater. I’ll go wherever it makes sense to me. I feel good here, but you never know what’s going to happen, really.

Dark Matter Season 1 is available to stream on Apple TV+. Here’s more spoiler interviews with the cast and creators.

Watch on Apple TV