Pee-Wee as Himself

Filmmaker Matt Wolf chronicles the life and career of Paul Reubens—best known as his alter ego Pee-wee Herman—via intimate interviews and a trove of archival footage in Pee-wee as Himself. Filmed before the artist’s recent death, the series premieres in Sundance’s Episodic section.
Editor Damian Rodriguez discusses navigating Herman’s enormous personal archive,  how the actor’s passing altered the film’s narrative and passing down his own affinity for Pee-wee’s Playhouse to his son.
See all responses to our annual Sundance editor interviews here.
Filmmaker: How and why did you wind up being the editor of your film? What were the factors and attributes that led to your being hired for this job?
Rodriguez: I’ve known Emma Tillinger Koskoff for over 20 years and we’ve worked together on various projects, one of which was the Fran Lebowitz series Pretend It’s a City. Matt Wolf liked the series and was looking for an editor for his Paul Reubens doc, which Emma was producing. She recommended me to Matt, we met up and we clicked. I was into his style of filmmaking and really liked the doc he made, Wild Combination: A Portrait of Arthur Russell. I then had to meet with Paul to make sure that he was comfortable with the editor coming onto the project, which was surreal. I had been a big fan since I was a kid and had recently dove back into Pee-wee’s Playhouse with my son, who also became a fan. Paul was stoked on that as well. He and Emma had been friends for years, and she put in a good word for me. Basically, Emma made it happen.
Filmmaker: In terms of advancing your film from its earliest assembly to your final cut, what were your goals as an editor? What elements of the film did you want to enhance, or preserve, or tease out or totally reshape?
Rodriguez: Initially Matt and I talked about making a portrait of Paul rather than just telling the story of his career. Matt had interviewed Paul for over 40 hours and there were a lot of moments where Paul would riff on a question, go off topic, or mess with Matt and then ultimately say things that were very revealing. We started to call these moments “interview verite,” because what Paul was saying was very reflective of who he was and what was going on in his head. We then started to incorporate these “interview verite” moments throughout the film to develop Paul’s character, but also to hint at Paul’s complex relationship with Matt. After Paul passed away, that changed everything—the making of the film became more part of the story.

Filmmaker: How did you achieve these goals? What types of editing techniques, or processes, or feedback screenings allowed this work to occur?
Rodriguez: We had Paul’s massive personal archive of film, video and photos at our fingertips, which was great. He had documented so much of his life and recorded his appearances on shows that wouldn’t otherwise exist. All of it gave insight to his story that had never been seen before and made it so personal. We had multiple screenings and got feedback about how things were working because with his story, there is a lot to tell. We also got great notes along the way from David Teague, who edited Matt’s previous film, Spaceship Earth.
Filmmaker: As an editor, how did you come up in the business, and what influences have affected your work?
Rodriguez: I’m from Austin, TX and started out in the music industry working at Willie Nelson’s recording studio. I moved to NYC in 2000 and crossed over to filmmaking. I’ve been working with Martin Scorsese, Bob Dylan, and the director/editor David Tedeschi since 2003. I started out assisting on the blues doc Feel Like Going Home and then as an associate editor on No Direction Home. I became friends with Dylan’s manager, Jeff Rosen, and ended up editing Theme Time Radio Hour, the musical film Trouble No More, and eventually co-editing the doc Rolling Thunder Revue, among other things. I like to work on music docs because of my background, but I also like docs that tell interesting stories. Narrative stuff is a lot of fun to cut, too.
Filmmaker: What editing system did you use, and why?
Rodriguez: I like working on Avid because it has more finesse with its tools and is more stable for longer projects.
Filmmaker: What was the most difficult scene to cut and why? And how did you do it?

Rodriguez: The ending of the film was the most difficult scene to cut because how it unfolded was key. We had a couple of elements that made it tricky and the flow had to be just right. If Matt and I weren’t crying by the end, then it wasn’t working. We eventually got it right after some trial and error.
Filmmaker: What role did VFX work, or compositing, or other post-production techniques play in terms of the final edit?
Rodriguez: Our VFX editor Ryan Weibust really helped out with the photos and moves on them. He got a bunch of old photo albums and incorporated the backgrounds of the pages and the borders of the photos, which gave the film a highly stylized look that was also subtle. We had a lot of Polaroid photos that can become monotonous in a series, but Ryan kept them interesting with the VFX work that he did.
Filmmaker: Finally, now that the process is over, what new meanings has the film taken on for you? What did you discover in the footage that you might not have seen initially, and how does your final understanding of the film differ from the understanding that you began with?
Rodriguez: Going through all of Paul’s films and videos early on, I came across a piece that I thought would be great as the last thing we see in the film. After Paul passed away, the footage took on a whole new meaning. I cut it in and Matt loved it because it’s very sweet and endearing, but also now has a deeper meaning.