The Big Picture

Director James L. Brooks discusses the behind-the-scenes of the iconic film Terms of Endearment, including casting changes and the challenges faced in getting it made. Brooks explains why he chose Terms of Endearment as his directorial debut and highlights the importance of the ensemble cast in making the film a success. The interview covers Brooks’ experiences working on other projects such as The Mary Tyler Moore Show, The Simpsons, and his decision to take a chance on Wes Anderson and Owen Wilson for Bottle Rocket.

To commemorate the 40th anniversary of the Oscar-winning film Terms of Endearment, the Shirley MacLaine and Jack Nicholson-led drama is getting the 4K treatment. Ahead of the restoration rerelease, Collider’s Steve Weintraub spoke with co-writer and director James L. Brooks about the behind-the-scenes of the film, like casting changes and what it’s like in the moments leading up to that Oscar win.

Before Terms of Endearment, Brooks was already well-established on the television side of things. He was producing for the New York sitcom Taxi and had served as the executive producer for The Mary Tyler Moore Show before that. Terms of Endearment, a feature Brooks adapted from Larry McMurtry’s 1975 novel, would be his first experience as the director of a movie production, and he tells Weintraub it came with “lots of heat” right off the bat. It’s hard to imagine this iconic film, which took home five Academy Awards, was ever at risk of not being made, but it had its fair share of hiccups on the road to the silver screen.

During their interview, Brooks explains why this timeless story was the one he chose as a first-time director. He talks about how, without the ensemble cast, including Debra Winger, Danny DeVito, John Lithgow, and Jeff Daniels, the movie wouldn’t be the success it is today, and how Burt Reynolds was very nearly a lead role in the movie. Brooks shares how much longer the original cut of the film was, his response to being approached about the 1996 sequel, The Evening Star, and finding the iconic score. They also discuss his time working on The Mary Tyler Moore Show, The Simpsons, and taking a chance on a then-unknown Wes Anderson and Owen Wilson for Bottle Rocket. You can read the full interview in the transcript below.

Terms of Endearment Follows hard-to-please Aurora looking for love and her daughter’s family problems. Release Date December 9, 1983 Director James L. Brooks Cast Shirley MacLaine, Debra Winger, Jack Nicholson, Danny DeVito, Jeff Daniels, John Lithgow Rating PG Runtime 132 minutes Main Genre Drama Writers Larry McMurtry, James L. Brooks
COLLIDER: I’ve been a fan of yours for a very long time, and I just never thought I would do a junket for this film with you in the year 2023. Anyway, I have a lot of questions for you. If somebody has never seen anything you’ve done before, anything you’ve written, anything you’ve worked on, what is the first thing you’d like them watching and why?

JAMES L. BROOKS: Whoa, man. That’s a question that I just want to go off to a cabin and just get back to you in two days. [Laughs]

I only ask because you’ve done so many cool things and I don’t know where you start with your career, so I’m looking for guidance.

BROOKS: You know what? I think I’d say Taxi. Taxi is also 40 years ago, except we still have reunions. We still talk to each other all the time because it’s that thing in the rearview mirror, where, “God, those were great days.” We knew it every day we got to work on Taxi. We felt that every day, and we still regularly get together because it was just a blessed time of life. I think it was a great cast and it was a great company feel, and we were sort of an underdog, too. We followed an enormously popular show which made us pretty popular, but we fell; it was like falling off a cliff, our rating to theirs. But as I say, every few weeks we still do a Zoom. I mean, that’s what it meant to all of us.

Will We Ever See the Original Version of ‘I’ll Do Anything’?
Image via Sony

I hope you’ve been filming some of those just for fun. Something I’ve always wanted to know and I’m so happy I can ask you is, will I ever see the original version of I’ll Do Anything?

BROOKS: You know, I wanted to do an anatomy of a failure when the movie just failed. I thought it would be interesting, but I couldn’t get the rights to the Prince songs, and that’s what stopped me. I thought, “Nobody had done that,” and it’d be a good way of giving myself a curative, you know, from the experience.

Does the studio still own the original version? Does it still exist somewhere where one day you could release some version of it?

BROOKS: I think [it’s] Prince’s guy who I think had the rights.

Oh, so in other words, you can’t release it at all?

BROOKS: The movie as the movie…

That’s what I’m curious about is, could you take the original movie and release it or do a one-night-only screening in LA for people who want to see it, or is it just no chance?

BROOKS: I don’t know the answer to that. I don’t intend to do that. [Laughs]

Sure. Well, if you ever want to do it for a one-night-only screening, please let me know because I will be the first one in line because I just want to see it. So you directed six things in your career; did you come close to directing something else or multiple things, and ultimately, for any reason, they just didn’t happen?

BROOKS: No.

Oh, so you got all six things made?

BROOKS: Yeah.

You are very lucky, sir.

BROOKS: Yes. Well, I’m trying to think. I think I have one. There’s one script I did not get made, but there were elements in it that I sort of picked, like picking a chicken bone or something like that.

So you obviously are critical to The Simpsons being on TV, and I’m curious if someone, kids, have never seen The Simpsons before and they’ve heard about it, do you want to recommend an episode to them, or do you just say start in Season 1?

BROOKS: You know, because of Disney+ a lot of kids are starting in Season 1, and that’s sort of been an amazing thing that happened to us. So what’s actually happening, you know, and it was just the luck of the game that Disney+ happened and people are doing that. But I think it was the first or second year, Dustin Hoffman, the biggest star in the world then, was on the show, and it was a Lisa show. We cared so much that we went to New York so that Yeardley [Smith], who plays Lisa, could be in the same room with Dustin Hoffman, and that we could all be there and we could really treat it as an acting experience and stuff like that. The fact that we did that was so great, so that’s always sort of been my favorite because of what went into it. There was a kind of romance to that show.

What If ‘Terms of Endearment’ Were Made Today?

Jumping into why I get to talk to you, do you think Terms of Endearment could get made today? It does seem like a movie like Terms of Endearment would be a real struggle in today’s Hollywood environment.

BROOKS: It was at the time. It was a struggle at the time. There’s a hero of the piece because Grant Tinker, who was Mary Tyler Moore’s husband and who was my boss, I had left his employ to do these things, and then he became chairman of NBC. When I was trying to put the movie together, I couldn’t have gotten the money, the last money, unless he pre-bought it for television and he was the one that allowed it to get made, or else I couldn’t have made it.

It’s crazy. When people were working on it, did you have any idea of what it was gonna be? Did you have any idea you were making something that was gonna resonate and everyone was gonna love?

BROOKS: I wanted it to be. When I read the book, it was the second time in my life that I had cried at that time. So that was in me. Then I knew it had to be, for me, just had to be a comedy. And it was my first movie, so there’s this tremendous thing about being naive and innocence that you never get again; you get it that one time. You don’t know what you can’t do, you know? It’s never more life and death than at that time, your first one. And then you start getting the breaks because without Shirley, without Debra, without Jack, without Lithgow, without Jeff Daniels, I mean, without that kid, it doesn’t work. And that’s the humbling thing. That’s the humbling thing you can never quite face: how many different movies there are to be made from the same director out of the same script. But that casting made it the best possible movie you could possibly make.

Also, it has just such a famous music cue. The theme for the movie is iconic.

BROOKS: Yeah. Yes. And there was a moment when we knew, when that music happened, there was a moment when that music came in and we felt relieved. It just fit. Because the one thing that was the danger was that you wouldn’t have the forward momentum, and that gave it to us.

The movie is like two hours and 10 minutes. How long was your first cut of this movie? Did you have a much longer version?

BROOKS: Much longer.

[Laughs] I’m so curious.

BROOKS: I’m sure north of three. I’m sure north of three.

Was it a cut that you were happy with, or was it like an assembly cut that just had everything?

BROOKS: I mean, that usually happens to me, by the way, that the first cut is long. We do a lot of previews and, you know, it finds its length. But I always think it’s sort of great if you can be past two hours because I think there’s kind of an investment from an audience just past two hours where you got a chance to stick to the bones a little bit.

Was there a storyline or something significant that you cut out of the movie?

BROOKS: I don’t remember, but I’m sure there were a number of, “I’ll never lose that.” Right? [Laughs]

Sure, 100%. So you go to the Oscars, and did you feel at that time, “We’re gonna win,” or were you like, “There is no chance?”

BROOKS: You’re in this pleasant period of surreal. Suddenly, you know, you go to these things where you’re a nominee, and it’s like you’ve gone nuts over being a nominee, and it’s all so great, and you’re cool! You’re cool. “I’m good.” You know, you show up, this is just a bonus, [laughs] and there’s something that starts to grip you that day. There’s an Oscar fever that happened… Something grips you where, you know, you were all cool about it, you’re all, “It’s great just to be nominated.” You were solidly in that spot, and then you get there, and you get a little nuts.

You won some big awards for that movie; where do you keep all of your awards that you’ve won between Oscars and Emmys?

BROOKS: They’re not in plain sight. I have an outer closet.

Burt Reynolds Was Almost in ‘Terms of Endearment’

So I read, I could be wrong, that originally you went after Burt Reynolds for the Jack Nicholson role.

BROOKS: I did! [Laughs]

What was that like going after Burt?

BROOKS: Here’s what it was like: I couldn’t get the movie made, so with Burt, I could get the movie made. He said he’d do it, and then a movie came along…[The Man Who Loved Women], and I got a call from his publicist, and he said, “Burt’s not going to do the movie, but he wants you to know he loves you.” [Laughs]

[Laughs] That is not a consolation prize. Okay, so you don’t have Burt; I then read that you went after Harrison Ford and Paul Newman.

BROOKS: That’s not so.

So it was just Burt and then you went to Jack.

BROOKS: And Debra got my script to Jack because Debra knew Jack, and I did not know Jack at the time. She got him to read it, which was no small accomplishment.

And how quickly do you remember him signing on?

BROOKS: Pretty [quickly].

What was the actual shoot like in terms of corralling these actors? Obviously every actor has their own unique way of working on set, and I’m just curious what it was like trying to have everyone work together, you know what I mean? Was it a tough shoot? Was it easy?

BROOKS: I was a first-time director, I was two weeks in, and we had something go wrong where I fell behind schedule by, I think, a day and a half. I forget what the mishap was, [but] there was a lot of heat. There was a lot of heat. I got a threatening phone call [laugh], and fortunately, instead of just shaking in my boots, which would have been the proper reaction, I went out of body. I don’t know what I did, but I know I actually went out of body because I was gonna be cut off and stuff like that. And then, the head of the studio at the time came down, and I cut some footage of what we had from the first few weeks, and then it was great. They were supportive the whole way.

What Does James L. Brooks Think of ‘The Evening Star’?
Image Via Paramount Pictures

Yeah, I would imagine if I was the head of the studio and I saw the footage, I’d be like, “Go do it. Have a great time.” What I didn’t realize was they made a sequel to this movie called The Evening Star. I had no idea, and I’m a cinephile. I have to ask you, what was your reaction when you heard they were going to make one, and did they ask you to be involved, or were you like, “Get the F out of here? This is not happening?”

BROOKS: Oh, it was a more polite version of that. I said, “No, thank you,” I think. And I never saw it. Never will. You know, I felt you can’t go home again.

I don’t know. I think it’s crazy to mess with a film like this to try to provide answers that are unneeded, you know?

BROOKS: I’m with you.

So, what are you most excited for people to see on the 4K release?

BROOKS: …what’s on it?

[Laughs] I’ll just say there are extras.

BROOKS: I mean, I knew at one point.

Yeah, I think there’s a new interview with you. The movie looks great. I watched it in 4K, and it looks spectacular. I guess I’m saying it for you: it looks spectacular.

BROOKS: I’ll tell you one story which shows directing is not all it’s cracked up to be. Do you know that the bedside scene when the mother dies and the boy’s performance? You remember it; it was extraordinary. It was vital to the experience we’re talking about the movie being, and my directing consisted of asking the kid after he did it, “How did you do that?” [Laughs]

[Laughs] I have no words for that. I’m just gonna say you got away with it, or you hired talented actors.

BROOKS: There you go.

If you could go back in time and do one more season—I think I know the answer now—of a show that you worked on, what would you do and why? I’m assuming it’s Taxi, or would it be something else?

BROOKS: Yeah, I think it absolutely would be Taxi. But for the Mary Tyler Moore Show, the most impressive job that we had to do was the last episode, where we got to say, “We’re going off.” We picked our own exit. I remember there was a meeting, they said, “Let’s quit at six,” and I said, “Seven. We want seven.” Then we all were going nuts over how the last show would work. I think we pulled it off. I think that was maybe the most out-of-body night I’ve ever had, you know, because I think we did pull it off. I remember I couldn’t go home. I couldn’t drive home. I went to a hotel. So, yeah, that comes to mind.

You were the one who hired Matt Groening to do the shorts on The Tracey Ullman Show. I mean, that moment of hiring him and what happened with The Simpsons literally changed your life, changed so many people’s lives, so when did it all hit you that, “Oh my god, this is gonna be a juggernaut?” When did you realize it was gonna be something on another level?

BROOKS: Oh, I know what it was. The show was on the air, and [TV & Satellite Week] Magazine—no longer exists—put us on the cover. I was in my office, and I put that cover up, and then it was like that thing in Tootsie. Suddenly, there were 40 covers up there. I think that’s when I realized, when those covers started to come in.

Working With Wes Anderson on ‘Bottle Rocket’
Image via Sony Pictures Motion Picture Group

You were also instrumental in helping Wes Anderson and Owen Wilson make Bottle Rocket back in the day before anyone knew their names. What was it about them that made you say, “I want to help them get this movie made?”

BROOKS: I remember going down to Texas, and at that time, the script was like three hours long. It was, like, crazy long. It was crazy long. Owen and Wes, and Owen’s brother, who was also around for that, were all living together in one small room. There was somebody else there, too, who was in the cast, and I said, “You have two of the actors here. You’ve never read it? You’ve never had a reading?” So we read it. It was, like, four hours. [Laughs] They realized the length of the first time, and it was great. I mean, it was Wes Anderson being born.

No, completely. So you knew at that time? You had a feeling with Wes that he was something?

BROOKS: The thing we always do, you know, writer-directors and writer-friendly and stuff like that, that’s sort of what we hope sets us apart a little bit. So that so much fit that mold and it was great. I think we said it earlier in our conversation here: innocence is so great. And that was sublime, in a sense, for all of us at that time.

Terms of Endearment is available to rent on Apple TV in the U.S. and you can purchase the 4K Blu-ray wherever they’re sold.

Rent on Apple TV