[Editor’s note: The following contains some spoilers for Origin.]

The Big Picture

Jon Bernthal was a big fan of the book “Caste” before being involved in the film adaptation and fought to be cast in his role. Bernthal had a strong connection with ‘Origin’ writer/director Ava DuVernay and was drawn to the opportunity to work with Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor. Bernthal and Ellis-Taylor worked hard to build the dynamics of their characters’ relationship through limited moments on screen.

With Origin, Academy Award nominated filmmaker Ava DuVernay has woven together a masterful exploration of how caste (the definition of which states: a division of society based on differences of wealth, inherited rank or privilege, profession, occupation, or race) influences global society and the dark way it can shape the lens through which individuals view the world. Told through the eyes of Isabel Wilkerson (Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor), the real-life author of the groundbreaking novel Caste: The Origin of Our Discontents, whose own journey through grief and personal loss inspired her to go on a life-changing exploration spanning through history and into the present as she investigated social hierarchies and human resilience in the face of destruction.

At the core of Origin is the romance between Wilkerson and her husband Brett Kelly Hamilton (Jon Berthal). It’s a relationship so beautiful that you can truly feel the loss she feels that he’s no longer physically present and it provides a sense of warmth that surrounds her throughout her journey. Collider got the opportunity to chat with Bernthal about why he feels this is such an important project for people to see, his desire to be there to provide support for DuVernay and Ellis-Taylor in realizing this vision, and his experience in building that relationship and sharing scenes with his co-star. He also talks about why he’s addicted to being nervous about each project he does, finally getting to make The Accountant 2 with Ben Affleck, returning to the role of Frank Castle aka The Punisher for Daredevil: Born Again, and how he ended up getting to be a part of The Bear.

Origin The unspoken system that has shaped America and chronicles how lives today are defined by a hierarchy of human divisions. Release Date 2023-12-8 Runtime 135 minutes

To Work With Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor, Jon Bernthal Pursued His Role in ‘Origin’
Image via NEON

Collider: When this came your way, how did that happen? Did it come in the form of a completed script? Was it a conversation with Ava DuVernay? Did you read the book first? How was this presented to you?

JON BERNTHAL: I read the book, and I was an enormous fan. The book, for me, was that rare occurrence when you watch a film or listen to a song or see a painting where you feel like something’s articulated that you feel so deeply that you know it’s right. You just know it’s true. It’s something that you’ve always felt, but you just never had the ability to articulate it for yourself. You’re so grateful and blown away that this artist or this person or this journalist or this writer has articulated for you. That’s how I really felt when I read Caste. I was just a big fan. And then, I heard Ava was down to meet me and that she was making a movie. I didn’t read the script, but I heard that she was making a film based on that book, which to me, I thought that was impossible. I didn’t understand how that could possibly ever work. It’s so nuanced and it’s so rich and it’s so dense. But I really, really, really wanted to work with Ava. Also, I’m just such a humongous fan of Aunjanue [Ellis-Taylor]. I got to work with her on King Richard, but we didn’t get that much stuff together. We would be in scenes with each other and I would look across the room at Aunjanue and it immediately grounded me. I just thought, “Wow, I would love to get into it with this woman.” So, when I heard that there was this potential of being able to play her husband, I was like, “I’ll jump on that.”

I flew myself down to Savannah and I sat down with Ava. We talked for hours, and we went on this super long walk through the city. We talked about Caste and growing up. I talked about growing up in D.C. She talked about growing up in L.A. I felt like there was just this really, really strong connection. Then, I read the script, and I was blown away with this character and how he was just so in awe of his wife. He was just there to be of service, and that really resonated with me, with how I felt about these three incredible women. Isabel Wilkerson had this stunning achievement. Ava had this singular Herculean task to go make this movie and raise the money on her own, and adapt this impossibly hard book to adapt, and then make a movie that doesn’t feel like it’s spoon-fed or medicine or being preached, but that’s entertaining and human. I thought that was impossible, but she really did it. And then, Aunjanue really had to bear the responsibility of playing this fiercely intelligent, unbelievably strong woman and deliver this social philosophy in a cogent way, but yet do it in a way where we’re with her, and it’s human and emotional. I really wanted to support these three women. I believe in them. I’m a fan of them. I’m in awe of them. And so, to be able to go and build that with Aunjanue, that was the key that I always went back to. I just kept saying to myself, “Support, support, support. That’s your role here.” And it was cool. You start putting that in motion and going, “Okay, I’ve gotta make tea. I’ve gotta find keys. I’ve gotta get a sweater.” That’s who the guy was. I loved presenting that flavor of marriage. That’s something that I get.

Related ‘Origin’ Review: Ava DuVernay’s Unusual Adaptation Rights Itself in the End Starring Aunjanue Ellis, ‘Origin’ is an odd adaptation that takes too long to make its concept work.

I, too, am in Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor’s fan club. I think she is truly one of the best actresses working today. Because we really do get to know your character through this relationship, what was it like to do those scenes with her and to build that relationship? Did you guys talk about the dynamic at all, or was it something you didn’t need to talk about?

BERNTHAL: We talked about it a lot. Aunjanue and I hung out a lot offset. Limitations and boundaries can be enormously fruitful in art, I believe. There was not much screen time. We had to fill so much of it through the lens of memory. We had to take these pedestrian mundane moments between these two and make them have enough resonance that they’d be seared into the heart of her memory, and it’s a complicated thing to try to do. We wanted to build the dynamics of that relationship through these really limited moments. There was a lot of talk and a lot of discussion. There were a lot of things that we had to fight for. We didn’t want him to be this guy who was constantly just getting her things. We also wanted him to be the kind of person that believed in her so much and loved her so much, and it’s such an unbelievably necessary and important tenet of love that he also was able to tell her hard truths and to tell her when he thinks she’s lying to herself and when she’s running from her responsibilities or when she’s scared or hiding. You really do that for the people that you love. I’m grateful for that. But I agree with you, I think Aujanue is, without a doubt, one of the best actors working today and to be able to support her on this was a real privilege. More than anything else, I get to walk away from this thing, and she’s a real friend now. That’s something I’m enormously proud of.

It’s just so compelling to watch your relationship play out in this. You guys were really electric together, even when you were just doing the smallest things.

BERNTHAL: A huge part of this thing was just to be able to dive in with her. The things that seem the most unexpected are when there’s the potential for the most chemistry and the most electricity. It really was the defining motivation for me to go and fight for this part. I really wanted to be in that situation with her.

Jon Bernthal Believes the Potential to Fail Makes Things Worth Investing In
Image via NEON

What is the most nervous you’ve ever been, the night before the first day you’ve walked onto a set for something and why? How do you handle things like that?

BERNTHAL: Oh, man, that’s every day. It’s never not that way, and I love it. I’m addicted to that. I never want that to change. I really care. It’s really vital for me. In this life, only the things that there is a real potential that you fail miserably at, are the things that are worth really fighting for and investing in. It’s why I love being a dad. It’s why I love being a husband. I fail every single day. I hit walls. But I swing for the fences. It’s the same way with acting. You’re never gonna get it licked. You’re never gonna have it perfect. The journey never ends. And those are the only journeys worth going on. If I stop being nervous, something would be rotten in Denmark.

Do you know what’s next for you? Are you currently shooting something? After all the scheduling upheaval that happened with the strike, do you know what that next thing is that you’ll be doing?

BERNTHAL: Yeah, I have a bunch of things. I don’t know how much I’m allowed to talk about. I know I’m doing The Accountant 2 with Ben Affleck. I think that’s next. And then, there are a few other things. I just don’t know whether I’m allowed to really say. I’m continuing to write on my show. I have four or five projects that we’re going in to work. But The Accountant should be next.

Are you glad to finally be shooting that? It feels like we’ve been waiting for that movie forever.

BERNTHAL: For a long time, yeah. Look, I love (director) Gavin [O’Connor]. I love Ben. Bill Dubuque is one of my favorite writers. It’s great. I’m really grateful to be back at work, period. I’m hopeful about this next period of time. It was really hard on a lot of people. There are folks and families whose lives depend on a consistent amount of work that aren’t in our union. Those people have really been through it, and I’m just really glad to get back to work.

Jon Bernthal Says There’s a Little Bit of The Punisher in Everybody
Image via Netflix

People, including me, love your work as Frank Castle, aka The Punisher. Do you feel like there is still more in that character? What would you be excited to still explore with him?

BERNTHAL: Absolutely. I think it was announced that we’re doing more. I think I can say that. Yeah, of course. I think there’s a reason why that character has resonated as deeply and strongly as he has in the hearts and minds of comic book fans and first responders and people in the military and people all over the globe. I think there’s a little bit of Frank Castle in everybody. He exists very strongly inside me and I care about that character deeply. I also know that it’s absolutely essential that if we do it, we do it right, and we have real sacred integrity to the source material and to what is at the core of Frank. I’m gonna do my absolute best to make sure that, if and when we do it, we do it right.

When you did The Bear, did you have any idea that you’d be returning? What was your reaction to reading the “Fishes” script? That truly was one of the most memorable episodes in a season of a series that I’ve ever seen.

BERNTHAL: What an unbelievable gift and what a beautiful group of people. I can’t say enough good about that show and about Chris [Storer]. Ebon Moss-Bachrach is a dear friend of mine. My first gig ever was understudying him in an Off-Broadway play. We did Punisher together. We worked together a few other times. He called me while I was in L.A. making American Gigolo, and he said, “Look, man, I’m on this show. It’s incredible. These people are incredible. I really think it’s special.” And when you’re talking to an artist like Ebon, he’s not talking through the lens of, “Wow, this show is gonna be really big.” He’s just talking about the quality of the people and of the material and the heart that’s behind it because that’s who Ebon is. He said, “Look, man, we want you to come play this part.” I call him Bone. I said, “Bone, I’d love to do anything for you, but I can’t come to Chicago.” And they actually flew to L.A. and shot that scene from Season 1 during a lunch break. I didn’t know what I was signing up for. I didn’t know what it was.

And then, to go watch that show, you see the resonance of that character and the stunning work. And then, in the next season, there was a Murders’ Row of incredible actors. To get to actually spend time on their set and to see how that show is made, with the level of heart and the level of care and how free it is, whenever you can match up this unbelievable vitality where it’s so important to the people and it’s so unbelievably personal, but they’re also coming at it with this looseness and freedom and there’s respect for everyone else involved, you surround yourself with so much talent, and you create something special. That really is The Bear to me. I love those people. I believe in them so much. I’m so grateful that I get to come and play with them a little bit from time to time.

I love hearing the passion you have for each of these projects you’ve been doing. I love Origin as a piece of work, but I also could have watched hours just of your two characters together.

BERNTHAL: Thank you. I appreciate it. I really do. I think with [Origin], more than anything else that I’ve ever worked on, it’s just really important that people see it. My kids got to see it, and they were affected deeply by it and changed by it. Ultimately, that’s the highest bar for me. That’s the highest aim. So many people’s kids are gonna get to see this movie. Whether you’re talking about your own personal human behavior or how we behave as a society, you can’t begin to fix problems, and you can’t begin to right wrongs until you recognize that there’s a problem. And I really think this movie does that. It’s vitally important, and I just hope people see it.

Origin is now playing. Check out the trailer:

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